Bloodwork came back

So I got my tests back. They only tested total and free test despite me asking for LH, FSH, etc.

Total: 284 ng/dl Range: 175 - 781 (range for an 85 year old man maybe)
Free: 0.26 nmol/L Range: 0.11 - 0.66 (7.49 ng/dl)

The nurse said it's "low but normal" and no follow-up needed. Needless to say it was a waste of time. So I guess my next step is a full blood panel.

Oh the nurse said that, as if she is qualified to make medical decisions. Take those to an endo or your doctor and if you get blown off, find one that will listen. I'm sorry man those levels are low, must feel like crap.

Well this is from a urologist office and supposedly he "signed off" on the results, which is why she is reporting no follow up. I do feel like shit most days but now I know why. My wife will be thrilled once this is sorted out. She has a way higher sex drive and thought I didn't find her attractive any more!

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/t...-therapy/177959-top-2-online-trt-clinics.html

Some good info in here, contact some of the guys if you have questions. There is a clinic for everyone's budget, I have been looking for a friend of mine because his wife just wants it all legal with his kids being at the home. I think you can find just what you are looking for it may take some time though. It's sad how these doctors just want people to suffer then wonder why later in life they have heart attacks, terrible cholesterol, are overweight, get diabetes, bad bone density, the list is so long is disgusting.

46and2 said:

Well this is from a urologist office and supposedly he "signed off" on the results, which is why she is reporting no follow up. I do feel like shit most days but now I know why. My wife will be thrilled once this is sorted out. She has a way higher sex drive and thought I didn't find her attractive any more!

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Find a clinic or do it yourself. Pm me if you have any questions.

Ok so I talked to a clinic to see what they had to say. My new blood tests were interesting:

Total Test 399 ng/dL 348-1197

Free Test (Direct) 11.2 pg/mL 8.7-25.1

TSH 2.270 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500

LH 4.7 mIU/mL 1.7-8.6

E2 23.5 pg/mL 7.6-42.6

PSA 0.6 ng/mL 0.0-4.0

Total Cholesterol 270 mg/dL 100-199

HDL 51 mg/dL >39

LDL 191 mg/dL 0-99

Trig 139 mg/dL 0-149

VLDL Cholesterol 28 mg/dL 5-40

So a couple of things jump out at me. First is the 110 point jump in total test, although I guess that could be caused by the testers since the ranges are different? Second is the cholesterol numbers. Holy crap they look bad to me. I'm not overweight, I weight train and do BJJ, all my fats come from fish oil, nuts/seeds, and lean meat. My parents both have/had high cholesterol and took medication for it, so it may be genetic. I'm talking with the new doc tomorrow but I am really concerned about the cholesterol numbers. Any thoughts on lowering that naturally without statins?

Low test has a direct correlation to high cholesterol; it's a side effect. That alone would make a learned physician approve some form of treatment to see if it reverses the high cholesterol. Test is made from cholesterol, less test, more cholesterol as it's the base of your sex hormones. That's a very over simplification but it's how it was best explained to me.

They allow a higher HDL when your LDL is very good - like yours (from my Dr last visit).
It's genetic, I'm told.
Total test jumps around a bit. Was higher value tested early in the morning?

flood said:

They allow a higher HDL when your LDL is very good - like yours (from my Dr last visit).
It's genetic, I'm told.
Total test jumps around a bit. Was higher value tested early in the morning?

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Higher test value was tested 3-4 in the afternoon. This recent one was done at 1 PM. 5 months ago my HDL was 41, LDL 127, Trig was 190. No idea what's going on here lol.

oufinny said:

Low test has a direct correlation to high cholesterol; it's a side effect. That alone would make a learned physician approve some form of treatment to see if it reverses the high cholesterol. Test is made from cholesterol, less test, more cholesterol as it's the base of your sex hormones. That's a very over simplification but it's how it was best explained to me.

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The precursor to all vertebrate steroid hormones is cholesterol

46and2 said:

So I got my tests back. They only tested total and free test despite me asking for LH, FSH, etc.

Total: 284 ng/dl Range: 175 - 781 (range for an 85 year old man maybe)
Free: 0.26 nmol/L Range: 0.11 - 0.66 (7.49 ng/dl)

The nurse said it's "low but normal" and no follow-up needed. Needless to say it was a waste of time. So I guess my next step is a full blood panel.

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I know what that's like. In my early 20's my levels came back similar to yours, if not lower, and my GP said that it's fine because it's still within the reference range...

46and2 said:

Higher test value was tested 3-4 in the afternoon. This recent one was done at 1 PM. 5 months ago my HDL was 41, LDL 127, Trig was 190. No idea what's going on here lol.

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It's frustrating isn't it? You pay the professionals good ching to sort this all out, and...

Have you looked into the online TRT clinics? I wonder if there are cheaper ones popping up yet. Presser here has one he uses. Full BW is fairly cheap but may want to just toss that amount into a sure thing that really WILL handle it all for you. It's a helluva balancing act to figure out, it seems.

46and2 said:

Higher test value was tested 3-4 in the afternoon. This recent one was done at 1 PM. 5 months ago my HDL was 41, LDL 127, Trig was 190. No idea what's going on here lol.

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Usually bloodwork for these test are done early morning when you first wake up type of thing, in the afternoon or late afternoon it can fluctuate and have different readings

OfficerFarva said:

I know what that's like. In my early 20's my levels came back similar to yours, if not lower, and my GP said that it's fine because it's still within the reference range...

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I heard this for years from my primary...kept telling him I'm always tired, no libido and what not for a few years even tho it was within "range"...until they finally sent me to a urologist but before the specialist did their own bloodwork I pinned 50mg of deca a few days before...now I am legal persay (sort of)...lol...but fuck some of these docs

flood said:

It's frustrating isn't it? You pay the professionals good ching to sort this all out, and...

Have you looked into the online TRT clinics? I wonder if there are cheaper ones popping up yet. Presser here has one he uses. Full BW is fairly cheap but may want to just toss that amount into a sure thing that really WILL handle it all for you. It's a helluva balancing act to figure out, it seems.

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This is through an online clinic ironically. I have an appointment with the doc this AM to sort it out.

So the doc and I talked and we are going to try and boost me using Clomid. He's also prescribing adex at .25mg once a week. I'm excited and hopeful that this will help me out and get me to an optimum level and feeling good again.

Well I can toss in this cut&paste from a good article on AI & SERMs;

"Comid: Usually dosed from 25-300 mgs depending on the desired effect, is both effective during a cycle for estrogen sides and post cycle for support of natural Testosterone levels. While it has been claimed that Clomid "stimulates" production of LH and therefore of testosterone, in fact Clomid's activity is achieved not by stimulation of the hypothalamus and pituitary, but by blocking their inhibition by estrogen.

Clomid is a mixed estrogen aganoist/antagonist (activator/blocker) which, when bound to the estrogen receptor, puts it in a somewhat different conformation (shape) than does estradiol. The estrogen receptor requires binding of an estrogen or drug at its binding site and also the binding of any of several cofactors at different sites. Without the binding of the cofactor, the estrogen receptor is inactive.

Different tissues use different cofactors. Some of these cofactors are able to bind to the estrogen receptor/Clomid complex, but others are blocked due to the change in shape. The result is that in some tissues Clomid acts as an antagonist -- the cofactor used in that tissue cannot bind and so the receptor remains inactive -- and in others Clomid acts as an agonist (activator), because the cofactors used in that tissue are able to bind. Clomid is an effective antagonist in the hypothalamus and in breast tissue. It is an effective agonist in bone tissue, and for improving blood cholesterol.

Clomid also has the property of reducing the adverse effect of exercise-induced damage of muscle tissue. This is very significant for endurance athletes but is not very significant, if at all significant, with reasonable weight training. Clomid does not perceptibly affect gains of the weight trainer either favorably or adversely in my experience.

It should also be noted that Clomid seems to have estrogenic effects on mood, causing some slight depression or moddiness. It can also effect eyesight by causing it to seem blurry. No this isn't from crying while listening to James Blunt CD's. LOL"

and...

"Arimidex: A-dex, seems to be the aromatase inhibitor of choice. Usually doesed from 0.25 - 3.0 mg it is effective even when not used every day. 0.5mgs per day can get rid of up to 50% estrogen."

TESTOSTERONE NATION | SERM and AI Sticky - Page 1

46and2 said:

So the doc and I talked and we are going to try and boost me using Clomid. He's also prescribing adex at .25mg once a week. I'm excited and hopeful that this will help me out and get me to an optimum level and feeling good again.

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No and no.

Your E2 is good. Does he want to kill your Estradiol instead of boosting T? We need some Estrogen.

bigmoe65 said:

No and no.

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Haha, at least you're confident! But seriously I am going along in hopes that it will work. I mean for the record it's not like I have a hard on for going on TRT. I'm willing to do it to get my quality of life back but it's not like I WANT to spend the money, do the injections, get the bloodwork, etc. I'd much rather be able to produce on my own.

flood said:

Your E2 is good. Does he want to kill your Estradiol instead of boosting T? We need some Estrogen.

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I was happy to see such a good E2. I think he wanted to keep E2 in check in case I respond well to the Clomid. I think .25 once a week is a pretty low dosage isn't it?

46and2 said:

Haha, at least you're confident! But seriously I am going along in hopes that it will work. I mean for the record it's not like I have a hard on for going on TRT. I'm willing to do it to get my quality of life back but it's not like I WANT to spend the money, do the injections, get the bloodwork, etc. I'd much rather be able to produce on my own.

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If hes just trying to kickstart your pituitary fine, but using clomid long term I dont think its a good idea. The stuff make you feel like shit. I didnt want to go on trt either but i do feel much better now and doing one injection per wek isnt a big deal.

bigmoe65 said:

If hes just trying to kickstart your pituitary fine, but using clomid long term I dont think its a good idea. The stuff make you feel like shit. I didnt want to go on trt either but i do feel much better now and doing one injection per wek isnt a big deal.

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Ah yeah that's a good point I didn't mention. We are going to run Clomid for 30 days and check bloods. If I respond well we are going to taper off and check bloods again to see if it worked. If not we are going to TRT. The most I'll run Clomid is 30 days and then taper off over a couple of weeks.

46and2 said:

Ah yeah that's a good point I didn't mention. We are going to run Clomid for 30 days and check bloods. If I respond well we are going to taper off and check bloods again to see if it worked. If not we are going to TRT. The most I'll run Clomid is 30 days and then taper off over a couple of weeks.

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Your bloods should look good after 30 days. Most likely it wont stay that way, maybe you will get lucky but you have low test for a reason, age and genetics.

46and2 said:

So the doc and I talked and we are going to try and boost me using Clomid. He's also prescribing adex at .25mg once a week. I'm excited and hopeful that this will help me out and get me to an optimum level and feeling good again.

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your gonna feel great for a week or two..and then like hammered dog do-do...i would at min ask for axiron or even a gel...

46and2 said:

I was happy to see such a good E2. I think he wanted to keep E2 in check in case I respond well to the Clomid. I think .25 once a week is a pretty low dosage isn't it?

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.25 ew of adex is worthless..would love to hear his reasoning behind that..

Haha, man I'm starting to question the decision to go this route. I'm still going to run the protocol as per the doctor's orders but I am prepared to go on TRT after this. I will not do a cream or a gel. I teach little kids BJJ and I am too afraid of transferrance. Not to mention I train very often and shower 2-3 times a day. It will be injections for sure. My only guess in the adex is if for some reason my test spikes on Clomid it will keep E2 from going apeshit? Seems kinda low to me too.

s2h said:

.25 ew of adex is worthless..would love to hear his reasoning behind that..

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Me too.

Yeah everything I am reading says the adex will not be necessary for this, nor would it be particularly effective at this dosage. Should I even take it then? My E2 is about ideal right now and I don't want to fuck up another hormone.

46and2 said:

Yeah everything I am reading says the adex will not be necessary for this, nor would it be particularly effective at this dosage. Should I even take it then? My E2 is about ideal right now and I don't want to fuck up another hormone.

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Well you need something since your e2 is gonna go up on clomid. Problem with adex is it just binds to the aromatase enzyme and when you stop using it theres a possibility of estrogen rebound. Thats why people use aromasin, its a suicidal inhibitor and kills the aromatase enzyme so theres no rebound. The dose hes giving you will do nothing. You are better off running a proper pct protocol than wasting your time and money with this doctor, trust me. You could do it for under 50.00.

bigmoe65 said:

Well you need something since your e2 is gonna go up on clomid. Problem with adex is it just binds to the aromatase enzyme and when you stop using it theres a possibility of estrogen rebound. Thats why people use aromasin, its a suicidal inhibitor and kills the aromatase enzyme so theres no rebound. The dose hes giving you will do nothing. You are better off running a proper pct protocol than wasting your time and money with this doctor, trust me. You could do it for under 50.00.

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Believe me, the urge to self-prescribe has been huge. If it weren't for the high-scrutiny career field I am in I would do so. I just cannot risk any sort of record. I'm beginning to worry the next 30 days will be a waste of time and a bit of money. I guess the upside would be that I can go to TRT if (when) this fails. I've talked to him about that and we'll be prepared for it.

And thank you guys. You have given me more to think about and more to go back to the doctor with. I've learned quite a bit here already.