Orals

[Creatineamonster]

Ok so before I start let me say I am researching and have searched out here but have not found this info if you think I could search in a different way let me know.

I am just wondering I know alot of people run Pro Hormones like Havok or SD and then use a PCT with that. If they were willing to go slightly to the dark side but not inject would they be better off using a oral then a pro hormone if legality was not the reason.

Please know that I am in no way thinking of using anything this is strickly a information gathering on my part. I know orals and PH's and DS's in general can be hard on the liver ect and I would most likely pin some strait Test if I ever did anything.

I am just wondering if the risk reward is better with Orals or PH's I would assume you would get better bang for the buck as far as sides ect with actual Orals but I am not sure of the Chem involved and was hoping for some more info on the subject.

I know that an oral only cycle with anything is the worst possible way to go but also see tons of logs everywhere of people doing Ph only cycles.

 

[The Prototype]

I've been using the Super DMZ now for a week and my strength is way up. I'm also using it with test so I'm not 100% sure if it's just bc of the dmz. But the increase was a lot more noticable this past week. I've been on the test for about 8-9 weeks now. So far, I haven't noticed any sides with the dmz.

 

[cavtrooper96]

SOme of those PH's are oral steroids and do not need any conversion. A testosterone base is highly suggested with any oral whether it being a PH or steroid. There's many reasons for this. I would start researching there.

It really depends on the oral for sides. There are some steroids that give worse sides than PH's and vice versa.

The only reason I ever did PH's without a test base was because they were legal and I knew (for the most part) what I was getting. Just get the real stuff and pin some test.

 

[cavtrooper96]

I've been using the Super DMZ now for a week and my strength is way up. I'm also using it with test so I'm not 100% sure if it's just bc of the dmz. But the increase was a lot more noticable this past week. I've been on the test for about 8-9 weeks now. So far, I haven't noticed any sides with the dmz.

So you with your current cycle youve bridged your Dbol into DMZ with a test base? How's your appetite, sides and liver?

 

[Creatineamonster]

I've been using the Super DMZ now for a week and my strength is way up. I'm also using it with test so I'm not 100% sure if it's just bc of the dmz. But the increase was a lot more noticable this past week. I've been on the test for about 8-9 weeks now. So far, I haven't noticed any sides with the dmz.

Cool were you noticing any sides before adding it on just Test and did they get worse at all when Adding it?

SOme of those PH's are oral steroids and do not need any conversion. A testosterone base is highly suggested with any oral whether it being a PH or steroid. There's many reasons for this. I would start researching there.

It really depends on the oral for sides. There are some steroids that give worse sides than PH's and vice versa.

The only reason I ever did PH's without a test base was because they were legal and I knew (for the most part) what I was getting. Just get the real stuff and pin some test.

I have done a little research on way to use a Test Base like actually keeping your gains for a reason

I really am looking for info and not even thinking about trying anything right now I know alot of people say that but I mean it. I am an info junkie who has fallen into an addiction of wanting to learn all I can about anabolics. I have downloaded a couple of books and bought a couple but with a subject like this have found that much more info to find out here as well.

I have seen that some of the "PH,s" are actually blends of different substances and that is scary as sheeet to me as I would assume all the downfalls of the different substances would be present.

Just have never done PH or Oral and was wondering for the most part what was harsher on the system but I guess it makes sense that both have bad , good and better depending.

 

[MDR]

SOme of those PH's are oral steroids and do not need any conversion. A testosterone base is highly suggested with any oral whether it being a PH or steroid. There's many reasons for this. I would start researching there.

It really depends on the oral for sides. There are some steroids that give worse sides than PH's and vice versa.

The only reason I ever did PH's without a test base was because they were legal and I knew (for the most part) what I was getting. Just get the real stuff and pin some test.

I agree with the test base being the best way to go.

 

[Creatineamonster]

LOL I just was searching Super DMZ and realized it was one of those Mixed PH or DS's lol still reading.

I think the absolute best way to go for a first Cycle would be just Test from what I have read that is best way to get an Idea of what you are going to get from test and how it effects you.

So this leads me to another question do you really shoot yourself in the foot as far as quality of gains on your later cycles by doing a PH or Oral only cycle first would seem to be shooting yourself in the foot if you plan on pinning later down the road anyway.

 

[The Prototype]

I was using tbol but I went two weeks on then about two weeks off then another two weeks on. Didn't plan it that way. Just happened. Appetite is good. Haven't noticed any sides yet and I'm taking milk thistle for liver. I've been really thirsty lately so my kidneys and liver may be taking somewhat of a beating. I drank pretty heavily on a daily basis for about ten years. I don't drink at all anymore but with all the damage my liver took over the years, I'm surprised my blood tests were fine a year ago. I should get it checked again soon. Prob post cycle.

 

[Creatineamonster]

I was using tbol but I went two weeks on then about two weeks off then another two weeks on. Didn't plan it that way. Just happened. Appetite is good. Haven't noticed any sides yet and I'm taking milk thistle for liver. I've been really thirsty lately so my kidneys and liver may be taking somewhat of a beating. I drank pretty heavily on a daily basis for about ten years. I don't drink at all anymore but with all the damage my liver took over the years, I'm surprised my blood tests were fine a year ago. I should get it checked again soon. Prob post cycle.

The liver is actually an extreamly tough organ over all one of the reasons from what I have read for all the issues in the past is cuz alot of lifters in the 70's and 80's never came off orals or did anything to protect their livers.

 

[stronger4ever]

I wouldn't push it too much. Your liver is a very important organ too. If you mess it up no matter how much gear you use in the future you won't grow.

 

[The Prototype]

Yeah it didn't dawn on me until Cav's post that I'm basically running an oral almost thru my whole cycle. I probably should have passed on the dmz just to be cautious. Looking back, I guess I didn't plan my orals very well this cycle. But, I am very happy with the dmz if the sudden increase in strength is indeed due to the dmz. I repped 90 lb dumbbells yesterday doing db presses which is the most I've ever done in my life and I've been lifting for ten years. My previous best was 80 lb db and it felt really heavy. The 90 lb db actually felt light and I may have been able to do more but didn't have a spot and didn't want to risk injury. Read my log of my cycle. Maybe you can pick up something from my experiences this cycle. If you need help finding it let me know and I'll get you a link. But it should be on the first or second page and it's titled "My Test Cycle Journal".

 

[Creatineamonster]

I wouldn't push it too much. Your liver is a very important organ too. If you mess it up no matter how much gear you use in the future you won't grow.

Yeah don't get me wrong I am not saying have a go at seeing how much you can trash your liver with orals at all but much of the elavations that come with PH's and Orals are corrected when finishing with a solid PCT from what I have seen of those who actually get blood work done. That is not to say some damage has not been done of course just that levels will return fairly well.

Yeah it didn't dawn on me until Cav's post that I'm basically running an oral almost thru my whole cycle. I probably should have passed on the dmz just to be cautious. Looking back, I guess I didn't plan my orals very well this cycle. But, I am very happy with the dmz if the sudden increase in strength is indeed due to the dmz. I repped 90 lb dumbbells yesterday doing db presses which is the most I've ever done in my life and I've been lifting for ten years. My previous best was 80 lb db and it felt really heavy. The 90 lb db actually felt light and I may have been able to do more but didn't have a spot and didn't want to risk injury. Read my log of my cycle. Maybe you can pick up something from my experiences this cycle. If you need help finding it let me know and I'll get you a link. But it should be on the first or second page and it's titled "My Test Cycle Journal".

Will do man and thanks for all the sharing in this thread.

 

[cavtrooper96]

I was using tbol but I went two weeks on then about two weeks off then another two weeks on. Didn't plan it that way. Just happened. Appetite is good. Haven't noticed any sides yet and I'm taking milk thistle for liver. I've been really thirsty lately so my kidneys and liver may be taking somewhat of a beating. I drank pretty heavily on a daily basis for about ten years. I don't drink at all anymore but with all the damage my liver took over the years, I'm surprised my blood tests were fine a year ago. I should get it checked again soon. Prob post cycle.

Im currently on week 5 of Tbol with 600 mg Test E and 500mg EQ. I just bumped up to 70mg of Tbol. BP is under control. Ive felt it high a couple times and I just up the hawthorne or take a baby aspirin but over all it has been 120/75. It has been affecting my appetite even with the EQ probly kicking in right about now. Its not killing it but Im not starving like normal with working out as much as I am. My mid morning snack is always at 10am. Im usually starving by 9:30. I have been finding myself at 10;30 going oh shit I need to eat. It has been giving me calf pumps as well so I have cut the running down a bit too. I really cant wait to finish the Tbol up and just be on the EQ and Test E full force! Im probly going to bump up the Test to 750mg.

Try taking some cranberry extract and/or drinking cranberry juice to help your kidneys. That Sdrol is harsh on the kidneys and liver. I know the DMZ is a little lighter on the sides. It is great for strength and very dry lean gains. You might feel some lethargy. If you do just up your carbs a little. S drol loves the carbs. I almost did an Sdrol or DMZ kicker but went with the Tbol.

 

[The Prototype]

Im currently on week 5 of Tbol with 600 mg Test E and 500mg EQ. I just bumped up to 70mg of Tbol. BP is under control. Ive felt it high a couple times and I just up the hawthorne or take a baby aspirin but over all it has been 120/75. It has been affecting my appetite even with the EQ probly kicking in right about now. Its not killing it but Im not starving like normal with working out as much as I am. My mid morning snack is always at 10am. Im usually starving by 9:30. I have been finding myself at 10;30 going oh shit I need to eat. It has been giving me calf pumps as well so I have cut the running down a bit too. I really cant wait to finish the Tbol up and just be on the EQ and Test E full force! Im probly going to bump up the Test to 750mg.

Try taking some cranberry extract and/or drinking cranberry juice to help your kidneys. That Sdrol is harsh on the kidneys and liver. I know the DMZ is a little lighter on the sides. It is great for strength and very dry lean gains. You might feel some lethargy. If you do just up your carbs a little. S drol loves the carbs. I almost did an Sdrol or DMZ kicker but went with the Tbol.

I've been on the dmz for exactly a week now. Not sure it's even kicked in but I was much stronger in the gym this week so I'm assuming it's the dmz. But so far so sides. No loss of appetite. The dmz makes me feel good. Only thing I've noticed is that I'm drinking a ton of water now as I mentioned earlier. I usually drink a 16 oz bottle of water during bed but I drank three last night. I kept waking up and slamming water like I was out drinking all night. Same thing happens to me when I take creatine.

Cav, how you like that cycle so far? I might do a very similar cycle next time but maybe use Var instead of tbol. I wanna get shredded for the summer.

 

[heavyiron]

LOL I just was searching Super DMZ and realized it was one of those Mixed PH or DS's lol still reading.

I think the absolute best way to go for a first Cycle would be just Test from what I have read that is best way to get an Idea of what you are going to get from test and how it effects you.

So this leads me to another question do you really shoot yourself in the foot as far as quality of gains on your later cycles by doing a PH or Oral only cycle first would seem to be shooting yourself in the foot if you plan on pinning later down the road anyway.

Super-DMZ is Dimethazine. Its an actual steroid.

 

[cavtrooper96]

Cav, how you like that cycle so far? I might do a very similar cycle next time but maybe use Var instead of tbol. I wanna get shredded for the summer.

Its ok thus far. Just really waiting for the Test and EQ to kick in full swing. It ALWAYS takes forever for anything no matter what it is to kick in for me. I should know more in about a week. It is starting to kick in pretty good now. I am up 10 lbs with my waist being same size. There is some water weight there though. I think if I had it to do over again I would go with some prop instead of enanthate or maybe a dbol kicker with the enanthate.

I did kill some pushups last weekend during Army PT. We had to do 2 minutes of pushups. I knocked out 75 in about a minute without stopping. All my Army buddies were going holy shit slow down. Youre making us all look bad. I ended up doing 90 in 2 minutes. I normally do about 75 in 2 minutes. I had a killer pump afterwards too!

 

[The Prototype]

Its ok thus far. Just really waiting for the Test and EQ to kick in full swing. It ALWAYS takes forever for anything no matter what it is to kick in for me. I should know more in about a week. It is starting to kick in pretty good now. I am up 10 lbs with my waist being same size. There is some water weight there though. I think if I had it to do over again I would go with some prop instead of enanthate or maybe a dbol kicker with the enanthate.

I did kill some pushups last weekend during Army PT. We had to do 2 minutes of pushups. I knocked out 75 in about a minute without stopping. All my Army buddies were going holy shit slow down. Youre making us all look bad. I ended up doing 90 in 2 minutes. I normally do about 75 in 2 minutes. I had a killer pump afterwards too!

75 in a minute is insane! That's more than one per second lol.

 

[Creatineamonster]

Super-DMZ is Dimethazine. Its an actual steroid.

Thanks for the clarification I found some other threads that talked about its make up in more detail. Actual I think one might have been a sticky from you lol.

I kind of understand that ph and ps have an extra somthing that is taking away through ingestion and digestion then they turn into the active chemical but I am still leary on the exact details of what are pro and what are actual.

 

[GMO]

IMO there are some decent PH or "designer steroids" out there, but I have yet to find one that will create better gains than the tried and true oral AAS like d-bol or a-drol. Especially in terms of overall strength and power.

 

[The Prototype]

IMO there are some decent PH or "designer steroids" out there, but I have yet to find one that will create better gains than the tried and true oral AAS like d-bol or a-drol. Especially in terms of overall strength and power.

Sorry but I disagree with that. However I've never used dbol or anadrol but I've used tbol. But this dmz is giving me sick strength gains. Inconjunction with the test, my strength has never shot up so quickly. I'm completely sold on the product and will most def incorporate it into my next cycle.

 

[SloppyJ]

Cav,

That's funny you mentioned that appetite thing with the Tbol. I wonder if Dbol is the same in that respect. I too have been having to almost force myself to eat. I don't like it.

 

[DarkHorse]

Cav,

That's funny you mentioned that appetite thing with the Tbol. I wonder if Dbol is the same in that respect. I too have been having to almost force myself to eat. I don't like it.

FYI- when I take D-bol I have a great appetite. How many mg's of D-bol are you taking?

 

[theryano]

I eat like a horse on dbol...it seems like i cant get enough....and i drink over a gallon a day of water...i dont know where it all goes !

 

[GMO]

Cav,

That's funny you mentioned that appetite thing with the Tbol. I wonder if Dbol is the same in that respect. I too have been having to almost force myself to eat. I don't like it.

Some people report appetite loss with D-bol, but it does just the opposite for me. I am hungry ALL the time.

Golfer, the gains from T-bol cannot be compared to D-bol. It is a completely different ball game. Again, I realize that every one's body is different, but for me oral AAS out gain PH's all day long. I am curious about this new Methadrol-Xtreme however and plan on giving it a run.

 

[The Prototype]

Some people report appetite loss with D-bol, but it does just the opposite for me. I am hungry ALL the time.

Golfer, the gains from T-bol cannot be compared to D-bol. It is a completely different ball game. Again, I realize that every one's body is different, but for me oral AAS out gain PH's all day long. I am curious about this new Methadrol-Xtreme however and plan on giving it a run.

Heavy stated earlier that dmz is in fact a steroid. I wasn't comparing tbol to dbol. Although they are chemically similar, I do agree, completely different. As I mentioned, I don't have any experience with dbol but FOR ME, I've never seen strength gains like I've experienced on the dmz. I do recall using PHs years ago when they were legal and my strength went way up as well. Anyways, I just wanted to clarify. I don't really want to get in a debate over this b/c neither of us are really qualified to say definitively. Or at least I'm not as I've not used dbol. But everyone is different as you said. What works for you may not work for me and vice versa.

 

[GMO]

Not looking for a debate either my friend. The human body is an extremely complex organism, and I can't even begin to scratch the surface of its understanding. Glad it is working so well for you. Best of luck, Golfer!

 

[heavyiron]

Not looking for a debate either my friend. The human body is an extremely complex organism, and I can't even begin to scratch the surface of its understanding. Glad it is working so well for you. Best of luck, Golfer!

The DMZ reminds me of a faster acting dryer D-bol. There is actually a pretty interesting study showing Dimethazine to be more muscle building than anadrol as well.

 

[heavyiron]

The DMZ reminds me of a faster acting dryer D-bol. There is actually a pretty interesting study showing Dimethazine to be more muscle building than anadrol as well.

Comparisons with methyltest, winny, anadrol and test prop showed better mytropic effect on the castrates with Dimethazine.

Biological activity of dimethazine in the protein-anabolic field.

Matscher, R.; Lupo, C.; De, P. Ruggieri. Lab. Ric. Ormonoter. Richter, Milan, Bollettino - Societa Italiana di Biologia Sperimentale (1962), 38 988-90. CODEN: BSIBAC ISSN: 0037-8771. Journal language unavailable. CAN 58:34623 AN 1963:34623 CAPLUS

Abstract

Dimethazine (I), 2,17-dimethyl-5-androstan-17-ol-3,3'-azine, was compared to methyltestosterone, oxymethalone, androstanazole and testosterone propionate in its protein-anabolic activity. The tests were made on castrated rats with a single hypodermic injection of 250 , on young male and female rats with increasing daily oral doses from 100 to 1000 for 30 days, and on adult male rats with daily oral doses of 1000 for 25 days. It was shown that I did not interfere with the growth of young animals; that adult rats treated with I gained, on an av., 20 g. more in wt. than the controls; and that I had a greater myotropic effect on castrates than the other steroids, and induced a higher N retention than methyltestosterone in adult males.

 

[GMO]

Interesting indeed. Looks like a substance I may have to consider in my next go around. Thanks for the education, heavyiron.

 

[XYZ]

I've said it 1000 times..................

Orals are use to EHHANCE a cycle not to build one off of.