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Anabolic and androgenic ratios.. knowledgeable PH users please help

wheybolic63

wheybolic63

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Many people that understand PH's to a great degree should be able to help on this one. This may seem like somewhat of a dumb question but i've wondered this for some time and have never been completely sure. Lets take super DMZ 2.0 for example. it contains 2 strong compounds, methylstenbolone and dimethazine. Methylstenbolone has an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 660/170 and dimethazine- 210/95. Since both of these compounds are being stacked into one pill are you..

1. Getting the anabolic results of the compound that is more anabolic? Methylsten-660
2. Getting the anabolic results of the average of the two compounds? 435
3. Gettting the anabolic results of both compounds together?- 870

same for the androgenic ratios. lets say your stacking epistane (androgenic-95) and halodrol(androgenic-28)

1. are you losing more androgenic activity by adding the halodrol to epistane?
2. Does adding the low androgenic profile of halodrol two a moderately androgenic compound like epistane increase the chance of estrogenic accumulation and lower the overall DHT levels that act as a strong estrogen antagonist?
3. As long as the epistane is with your system no matter what you stack it with are you still getting the full androgenic effects as if you were to just take epistane solo?

thanks guys.
 
Negged for broscience
 
None of that makes sense.

The A:A ratios simply state how many times stronger than testosterone. So 100:100 means the compound is 100 times more anabolic that testosterone and 100 times more androgenic than testosterone. Nothing more.
 
OP, you know those scanners through which you swipe your credit card? The androgen receptors in your body are JUST LIKE THAT (not kind of like that, I mean literally JUST LIKE THAT) and each steroid molecule has a little credit card on it with a code in the form of an anabolic to androgenic ratio. When you ingest steroids (I especially like tren, because you can pop the top off the vial and pour it in a shake and not even notice its there, it tastes totally fine) the molecules swipe their credit cards on your androgen receptors and a big number flashes up like "600:100" and your body goes, "Holy fucking shitballs that's a lot of digits," so it reads them, encodes them in your muscle tissue, and that's how your body knows how much to grow when on a cycle.

So yes, if you take methylstenbolone and dimethazine at the same time, your ATMs will be like "omfg wtf is this dude doing there's too many different numbers," and it may average the different numbers out. So your muscle tissue will think about getting super big on the methylstenbolone but then the dimethazine will be like, "wait bitch I haven't had a turn yet," and it'll put its cock in your androgen receptor's mouth, and they'll spit out the numbers which will be lower than methylstenbolone, so your muscles will shrink back down.

I hope that wasn't too technical for anyone.
 
teezhay said:
OP, you know those scanners through which you swipe your credit card? The androgen receptors in your body are JUST LIKE THAT (not kind of like that, I mean literally JUST LIKE THAT) and each steroid molecule has a little credit card on it with a code in the form of an anabolic to androgenic ratio. When you ingest steroids (I especially like tren, because you can pop the top off the vial and pour it in a shake and not even notice its there, it tastes totally fine) the molecules swipe their credit cards on your androgen receptors and a big number flashes up like "600:100" and your body goes, "Holy fucking shitballs that's a lot of digits," so it reads them, encodes them in your muscle tissue, and that's how your body knows how much to grow when on a cycle.

So yes, if you take methylstenbolone and dimethazine at the same time, your ATMs will be like "omfg wtf is this dude doing there's too many different numbers," and it may average the different numbers out. So your muscle tissue will think about getting super big on the methylstenbolone but then the dimethazine will be like, "wait bitch I haven't had a turn yet," and it'll put its cock in your androgen receptor's mouth, and they'll spit out the numbers which will be lower than methylstenbolone, so your muscles will shrink back down.

I hope that wasn't too technical for anyone.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that makes sense to me. Otherwise why would you get better results by stacking drugs than using one drug alone? There are lots of tried and true stacks. Otherwise people would just run tren and nothing more. (and I know some do this too)
 
HereToStudy said:
None of that makes sense.

The A:A ratios simply state how many times stronger than testosterone. So 100:100 means the compound is 100 times more anabolic that testosterone and 100 times more androgenic than testosterone. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

Not exactly John. Test is 100/100 .
Here is the scientific mumbo jumbo but the fact is I wouldnt base my cycle off those numbers anyway. In the real world they often just dont translate into what you would expect, as you definatelty realize John, but definitely not all do. They are merely , imo , a vague guideline:

Anabolic and Androgenic

The anabolic:androgenic ratios for steroids and prohormones are often quoted, but what do they mean?

In the 1960s when the majority of steroid research was undertaken, before steroids became a dirty word, the goal of the researchers was to develop steroids that could increase muscle mass (in cancer patients, burn victims, those with wasting diseases etc.) without also causing the secondary male sex characteristics that natural steroids like testosterone can cause (like increased facial hair, deeper voice, enlarged clitoris in females). They were trying to develop steroids that were anabolic without being androgenic.

Of course medical science has pesky moral objections to testing unknown substances on human test subjects (even though these days gymrats are willing to queue round the block to take the latest untested designer steroid compounds), so a system of testing was developed on rats.


The Hershberger Assay

The steroids were administered to rats either orally (through a gavage tube) or by injection. The rats were sacrificed after the experiment (which is known as the Hershberger Assay), and the increase in the weights of the levator ani, seminal vesicles, and ventral prostate, were recorded and compared to a standard such as testosterone (if by injection) or methyl testosterone (if administered orally).

The levator ani is the "tail-wagging" muscle in animals, and as such any increase in weight provides a reasonable estimate of the anabolic nature of the compound.
The seminal vesicles and the ventral prostate are both involved in the production of semen, and are androgen-sensitive tissues, that is they grow when androgenic compounds are administered.

By using these markers, the scientists tried to make compounds that had a high anabolic value (as measured by the levator ani, or L.A) and low androgenic value (as measured by seminal vesicles, S.V., and ventral prostate, V.P.).


Viva la Vida

In the late 1960s a young scientist called Julius Vida spent a long time collecting and reviewing all the available data on steroids that had been published so far. In 1969 he published a book called "Androgens and Anabolic Agents - Chemistry and Pharmacology". The first part of this book was a discussion on the metabolism, and structure and activity relationships of these compounds, while the second part listed 666 steroids, organised by structure, and for each he listed the steroidal nomenclature (the chemical name for the drug), a structural diagram of the compound, and the anabolic and androgenic values compared to a standard along with the method of administration used to determine them (i.e. oral or subcutaneous injection). He also provides a reference number that refers to a bibliography to show which study the figures were originally published in.

These figures form the basis of the anabolic:androgenic ratios we see quoted today.


In Detail

Here's an example of one of the compounds listed in Vida's book. I've added some labels to make it a bit more clear.

x3h004.jpg


We aren't concerned about the serial, nomenclature or chemical structure at the present time. Looking at the method of administration, for the top row it is empty (meaning that the figures on that row were the result of subcutaneous injection) and on the second row it says oral, meaning that the steroid was orally administered to arrive at the figures on that row.

Since this compound is methylepithiostanol, more commonly known as the prohormone/designer steroid "epi" (or by the trade names epistane and havoc), and is currently only available in caps for oral administration, we should only concern ourselves with the figures on the second row - those arrived at by oral admin.

Those figures are given as ventral prostate/seminal vesicles: 91, levator ani: 1100, and the basis of comparison is given as 17a-MT (methyltestosterone).
This gives it an anabolic:androgenic ratio of 1100:91 (compared to methyl test). Methyl test is assumed to be 100:100 for the purposes of this comparison. What this means is that epi is 11 times more anabolic (1100%) and roughly as androgenic (91% as androgenic) as methyl test (by oral administration to rats).


In Conclusion

While these figures do not translate literally to their effects on humans, they tend to give a reasonable impression of the nature of a given steroid. In medical science, these would be the first tests they would do on a newly synthesized compound to determine it's initial viability. If it proved effective, and had a strong dissociation of anabolic and androgenic effects, it may have progressed to further testing and eventually human trials.

Many of the compounds available on the prohormone and designer steroid market today never progressed beyond this initial animal testing stage, and some of them are entirely novel compounds with no scientific testing undertaken at all.
 
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