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And this is what happens when labor unions go away.
- Thread starter LAM
- Start date
This is just a other example of liberal bullshit. If the wages weren't set so high already then none of this would be an issue. You can't pay a cook $18/hr and only charge $4 for a sandwich... The liberals making things FAIR are making things UNFAIR to those less educated. I used to always hold the last payment until I recieved all company materials back in my possession and if anything was missing it was deducted from the check. I see no problems with this. I gave them working equipment and if it was lost or damaged they were responsible for it. They didn't like it but it was FAIR.
unions take away the fear of being fired and drives down competition and work ethic. The fact that i know if my farm does not produce i go bankrurpt drives me to work harder, or if i dont give IT support to the Dr's or I am fires drives me to come in and do overtime after farming all morning on the weekend. If i was protected and had no fear of being replaced then I would be much more relaxed.
and what wages would that be? the ones that once adjusted for inflation are equal to those of the 60's and 70's? try reading an actual economic report on the subject. unions have fought for wages to keep up with inflation. my god the right wing media has corrupted your ability to even perform basic mathmatic functions. wages increase at the rate of about 1-2% a year while inflation and the increasing costs of goods and services is closer to 4-5% a year.
* the ILO names the US specifically in stating that low and stagnant wages were not only part of the cause of the 2008 financial collapse but also part of the reason for the sluggish recovery.
Global Wage Report 2008 / 09
Minimum wages and collective bargaining
Towards policy coherence
http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/---dgreports/---dcomm/documents/publication/wcms_100786.pdf
Economy built for profits not prosperity | Economic Policy Institute
U.S. Incomes Seen Stagnant Through 2021 - WSJ.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/s...ductivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0
Analysis: Stagnant wages a speed-bump for economic growth | Reuters
and you know this from never having worked in a union right. my guess is you also never learned proper US history in regards to the lack of wage growth during the Industrial Revolution.
LOL...you never learned US history did you? because it was the combination of progressive tax policy and labor unions which fought for labor wages which produced productivity gains across all 5 of the income quintiles from the post great depression until the 70's which caused the growth of the middle class in the US.
the low labor union density US the 3rd lowest in the OECD has the highest percentage of low paid workers at 25% of the total labor force and also has the lowest labor union protection out of any other country in the OECD.
wages used to increase faster at the bottom 2 income quintiles faster than at the top while obviously earning substantially lower incomes. you know absolutely nothing about US economic history except what you have "learned" from right wing media outlets. to date the number of highly cited economic reports from conservative economists numbers 0 in the past 40 years. Now I wonder why that is. the number of Nobel prize winning conservative economists equals 0.
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Page 8. Figure 1 shows how the US ranks last in worker protections in the OECD even behind Mexico.
http://www.oecd.org/employment/emp/43116624.pdf
http://www.oecd.org/employment/emp/43116624.pdf
It's simple, it's not the conservatives are wrong or stupid we just do what needs to be done and not talk about it, and try to force or opinions on everyone else three networks of schools Nobel Prizes and massive media outlets. Liberals have week and hard to prove ideas most of which don't work so they lie and have their peers back them up. Just like the Nazis used to say if you yell something loud enough strong enough and long enough people will believe you. You are just part of liberal machine the cancerous part that is destroying this country, thank you for your dis-service.
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of course no evidence needed because "we believe" than it most be true. you know who else thinks like that? sociopaths...
sadly you have the left confused with the right. because the ideology of the radical right in the US couldn't be any closer to that of the Nazi party.
Labor Unions...bah. They had their time in the sun, but many if them overplayed their hand. Look at the auto industry. You needed to pay some guy 90k...in Detroit, to screw bolts on to a car. An their negotiated retirement was perfect...for 1965. But nobody thought those old fucks would live to be 90 and spend more years in retirement then in the workforce.
who wants a 4 dollar shit sandwich anyway? i'd rather pay 8 with ingredients worth eating and not made by someone struggling so hard to get by they drool on my sandwich. i don't want 2 dollar t shirts either... these arguments are bs.
chambermaiding in nevada was union protected work and we still worked hard and were afraid of not performing well. we were well paid and it didn't seem to hurt our employers a bit. some of the union stuff was a bit over the top like not having to step into a tub to scrub the back wall of the shower but most of us just did it anyway.
name one country in the OECD with low union labor density rates and a growing economy?
must be that the economists at the OECD misinterpreted 30 years of economic data from over 130 country's when all they had to do was ask some dumb-ass conservatives what the problem was.
Milton Friedman. It was once a respectable organization, but not anymore
the noble prize committee is made up of a bunch of Norwegian big gov liberals. So stop citing the noble prize when referring to a highly regarded organization. it is not. it's a liberal big gov organization that gives the prize to its own kind.
A Nobel Prize for Idiots, Signifying Only Bias - Bloomberg
Do you know what it takes for those guys to make that 90k/year?
It's surprising to me how many people have been talked into believing that getting rid of unions is actually a good thing.
Maybe we should all work weekends, let's give back fair wages and relative equality, bring back child labor (remember hearing this by a guy in a certain parrty)? Let's not forget Unions helped negotiate the 1st healthcare from employers ( what party doesn't want you to have any coverage ? Maybe we shouldn't get any piss breaks or lunch breaks.
Shoot yourselves in the foot, leave me be.
Maybe we should all work weekends, let's give back fair wages and relative equality, bring back child labor (remember hearing this by a guy in a certain parrty)? Let's not forget Unions helped negotiate the 1st healthcare from employers ( what party doesn't want you to have any coverage ? Maybe we shouldn't get any piss breaks or lunch breaks.
Shoot yourselves in the foot, leave me be.
seriously its surprising to you? Unions have completely destroyed United States work ethic and economic supremicy. Everyone has a BUG up their ass if they have to work weekends or work overtime and they feel it's not fair because "I have to get the softball game or i'm going to miss my favorite TV show" instead of getting the job done this country is full of pussies that don't know how to work, and what little work they do, they feel like it's more than anyone else in the world and its barely scratches the surface of what other countries workers do. And I speak from experience my father owns his own business my entire life and my mother work for union and retired from it I've seen both sides
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Great, but why shouldn't someone else's family get the same benefit.
Yahoo is now giving 8 weeks paid maternity leave to men or women, and another 8 weeks non-paid on top of that to women. Was that because of Unions?
Unions did a great thing. Unions have been, and still can be a piece of the puzzle. However, unions have caused enough shit to hurt themselves, and cause a backlash. Unions need to modernize, and not treat negotiations like it's 1965 if they want to be effective.
I want my fucking twinkies damn it. Does anyone here think that unions helped hostess employees? Twinkies are coming back. WooHoo. and it's happening without unions.
Unions can learn to adapt or they can become obsolete. Simple as that. public support is no longer with them. guess they are doing a poor job of telling their story.
Yes, I've been a member of a union. No, I no longer am. I was a member of IBEW. If I still worked in that job, i would be a member still.
Unions did a great thing. Unions have been, and still can be a piece of the puzzle. However, unions have caused enough shit to hurt themselves, and cause a backlash. Unions need to modernize, and not treat negotiations like it's 1965 if they want to be effective.
I want my fucking twinkies damn it. Does anyone here think that unions helped hostess employees? Twinkies are coming back. WooHoo. and it's happening without unions.
Unions can learn to adapt or they can become obsolete. Simple as that. public support is no longer with them. guess they are doing a poor job of telling their story.
Yes, I've been a member of a union. No, I no longer am. I was a member of IBEW. If I still worked in that job, i would be a member still.
it wasnt a benefit! My Mother always made less (significantly less than my father) it held her back. Unions do that by keeping people under their thumb with the benefits which just enslave people not uplift and inspire them.
Regardless, why shouldn't someone else's mother not have a Union to argue in her favor.
is your real name Brick Wall? im done with this argument. you won! i'm stupid just ask LAM
Amen brother ! I was a PROUD union printing pressman for some 30 yrs. I also worked non-union in Florida sweatshops . Unions have done so much for our country and the working people it's amazing how we forget. Even non-union workers benefit from the union contracts in their area and their field. They bring quality training and apprenticeships , remember those. We were the BEST in our trade bar none and that meant huge increases in quality and productivity for our employers. Are unions perfect and never wrong, of course not. There have been many mistakes and abuses just like anything else. I have to laugh when I hear all these stories about how you can't get fired and there is no incentive to work hard. You most certainly can and will be terminated if you don't come to work each day ready to do your best and with union pride. People just repeat over and over the same old anti-union lies, it's so sad. Remember our economy is consumer based. Based on the middle class having the income to afford goods and services . How can we have sustained growth when our wages and benefits fall farther and farther behind. We had the peak of wages about the late 70's -1980, ever since we are going down hill but the ceo's and top percent had their wages increase dramatically, you be the judge !
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Source: OEDC.org.
The last time that all OECD countries reported this statistic, in 2008, the USA ranked 5th from the bottom; above Turkey, Estonia, France, and Korea.
Also, the labor statistics -- like many quality of life statistics in the USA -- are skewed by illegals. Upwards of 25 million wetbacks will fuck up anyone's statistics.
Really, shouldn't we be working less time than our grand fathers did, shouldn't we be able to retire like our grandfathers did? What happened to 9-5 Mon-Fri? I do 7-5 and work Saturdays 8-2. I have a retirement plan, but what are my chances of that ever happening? We are regressing, not progressing, with all of our technology why are we working longer?
Part of the problem is our gov destroyed the purchasing power of the dollar.
exphys88
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Good points. They should still have a place, and they have made mistakes. The point, is that they are needed in many industries.
jay_steel,
That depends.
I worked with union workers who could be fire for wearing the wrong color shirt.
It depends on the situation. Yes, some/many union member cannot be fired, but many can be.