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What can low doses really do? .. Let's find out.

jrock00123

jrock00123

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Background: 43 yo. 189 lbs @ 14%. 10+ years training experience. Been on TRT for 3 years -- transdermal cream for the most part, but recently switched to 100mg test-c + hcg. Have done numerous oral cycles with my TRT dosage. This will be my first real cycle with injections.

Goal: 195 - 200 lbs with a slight reduction in body fat.

Nutrition: No change initially -- 3,300 kcal, 390gm carb, 265gm pro, 80gm fat over six meals. This is what I've been eating for the last three months. I've slowly moved from 180 to 189 lb over this period. Everything weighed and measured with 1 or 2 off menu meals per week.

Training: Modified 5/3/1. I've added a fourth day using weighted chins as the main lift and do direct bicep work on this day also. I typically do 10 sets of accessory work after the main work sets, but will likely add more volume starting today.

Cycle:
Weeks 1 - 9: 375mg test-c, 300mg tren-e
Weeks 1 - 2: 10mg d-bol, 4mg m-sten
Weeks 3 - 8: 25mcg bi-lateral IGF-1 DES intra-workout

Today is day 1. Looking forward to this cycle and plan on busting my ass to get the most our of it. I'll try to get some starting photos later today.

Any advice is welcome.
 
I think this is a really good safe but effective low dose run.

I have found with igf des to be really effective you need to drink a ton of water. Make sure to over drink pre and intra workout. Do your warm up. And right before your working sets hit the igf. I love des.. good choice and good luck
 
I personally would run the orals 3-4 weeks at those doses, if not longer, so little to worry about with your liver or lipids at those levels. Make sure you have an AI and at a minimum BLR Prolactrone around to deal with the tren sides. Besides that, looks good. Any bump up should net you some great results and you may like the way that low dose of dbol makes you feel; I love it but it gives me gnarly headaches after about a week so I can't use it sadly.
 
dieseljimmy said:
I think this is a really good safe but effective low dose run.

I have found with igf des to be really effective you need to drink a ton of water. Make sure to over drink pre and intra workout. Do your warm up. And right before your working sets hit the igf. I love des.. good choice and good luck
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I'm pretty good about drink water. I really only drink water and coffee and probably get in a little over a gallon a day. I'll definitely increase this now that the cycle has started.

oufinny said:
I personally would run the orals 3-4 weeks at those doses, if not longer, so little to worry about with your liver or lipids at those levels. Make sure you have an AI and at a minimum BLR Prolactrone around to deal with the tren sides. Besides that, looks good. Any bump up should net you some great results and you may like the way that low dose of dbol makes you feel; I love it but it gives me gnarly headaches after about a week so I can't use it sadly.
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Last bloodwork from a stupid TRT + oral cycle had my HDL at 5. Scared me enough to be really careful with any orals going forward.

HFO3 said:
That looks solid, 300mgs tren is a very effective dose of tren. results will be great with proper eating, training and rest. good luck!
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Thanks bro!
 
Damn I'm a fat fuck! The camera doesn't lie. Looks like my "lean" bulk turned into a run of the mill bulk. Anyway, one of the main goals of the cycle is get back on track.

Today I did over head pressing. New PR = 170 lbs. Very close on 175 but couldn't lock it out. 15 sets of accessory shoulder exercises (BTN presses, weighted dips, lateral raises).
 

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That's an awesome first cycle. I think you'll be very happy, the harder you push the better it is. I've never been a fan of orals but I'm definitely going to be trying some of IML's orals to keep levels up when I can't pin. Keep us posted.
 
Did squats today. New PR = 280lb (I know this is sad). Full range and deep. Followed with unilateral leg presses, goblet squats, and leg extensions. Overall very good workout. Felt great in the gym and definitely feel beat up pretty good now.

Wife made chili and corn bread for dinner, so I ate off menu. Awesome dinner -- 200 or 300 kcal over, but I think I needed the extra calories after the intense leg workout.

Feeling good so far, no sides but it's only day 2.
 
Just spent an hour reconstituting 1mg of IGF-1 DES with 2ml of bac water and dividing into 40 slin pins. All are now in the freezer and ready for week 3. I wish they shipped the stuff in a bigger vial. Loading 5 units at a time sucks.

Question: When should I expect to start seeing sides related to tren (night sweats, trouble sleeping)?
 
ass to grass brotha! nice

lookin solid for being 43. keep it up
 
bigmoe65 said:
Youre not fat brother.
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Thanks for the support bro!

Looking back I'm probably being too critical. We all know there will be some fat gain when trying to put on size. However, it's still tough when the abs disappear.
 
jrock00123 said:
Just spent an hour reconstituting 1mg of IGF-1 DES with 2ml of bac water and dividing into 40 slin pins. All are now in the freezer and ready for week 3. I wish they shipped the stuff in a bigger vial. Loading 5 units at a time sucks.

Question: When should I expect to start seeing sides related to tren (night sweats, trouble sleeping)?
Click to expand...

I kept mine in a potato skin box in the freezer.

Tip if you ever run igf des and ir3 at the same time get the u50 and u100 needles and seperate the peptides by rig size. Never know when someone is going to handle your peps and mix them up
 
HFO3 said:
I didn't know you could recon with BW, I thought AA was the only choice with igf... :fire: in the hole with AA

BTW, you are far from fat!
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I use aa... theres a train of thought that bw degrades igf. I dont know for certain. Aa does have a bite even when you cut it with nacl
 
jrock00123 said:
Just spent an hour reconstituting 1mg of IGF-1 DES with 2ml of bac water and dividing into 40 slin pins. All are now in the freezer and ready for week 3. I wish they shipped the stuff in a bigger vial. Loading 5 units at a time sucks.

Question: When should I expect to start seeing sides related to tren (night sweats, trouble sleeping)?
Click to expand...

Night sweats, limit carb intake late at night or before bed

Insomnia, I never had it on tren but maybe try some zma...I will other chime in on this one
 
HFO3 said:
yes Jimmy I have heard that same train a few times before, bro science? IDK...

Jrock- Are you actually freezing it in the freezer? if so, why?
Click to expand...

Yes, in the freezer. My understanding (bro-science?) is that this will keep it from degrading. DieselJimmy mentioned this idea in another thread.
 
bulldogz said:
Night sweats, limit carb intake late at night or before bed

Insomnia, I never had it on tren but maybe try some zma...I will other chime in on this one
Click to expand...

No sides yet. Just asking when they typically start.
 
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Did weighted chin-ups. Today's 1-RM (tied with last month for PR) = body weight + 95lbs. Followed with seated row, barbell curls, and dumbbell curls.

Biceps were pumped much more than usual. I think the d-bol had something to do with this.
 
New bench PR yesterday, 300lb. Today will be deadlifts. Nutrition and training going very well. Just waiting for the long ester steroids to start taking effect. Yawn.
 
Updated stats: 193.2lb (+4.2lb) @ 14.7% (+0.6%).

Well week one is tough to tell much. Definitely seeing increased glycogen and water uptake, most likely from the d-bol and test. A little too puffy this morning, so I'm going to start taking adex more consistently (0.5mg EOD). I may cut back on carbs next week (~ 100gm) if my bf continues to rise. I'm looking for lean mass on this cycle.

Deadlifts on Saturday went well. New PR = 410lb. No assistance exercises that day -- just lots of deads leading up to the new 1-RM.

Overhead press yesterday: 150lb x 4. For assistance did BTN presses, lateral raises, and dips. This was a killer workout and my shoulders were fried.
 
Updates for the last few days:

I'll focus on my 5/3/1 final work set and skip posting accessory work unless anyone is interested. I've added volume and I'm now doing at least 15 sets of accessory work.

Monday, overhead press 150x4
Tuesday, squat 195x3 (knees were hurting so I did jot push beyond my 5/3/1 target)
Thursday, was out of town so I did heavy seated rows instead of weighed chins.
Friday, bench 270x4

Approaching the end of week 2. Weight has stayed around 193 this week. Slight increase in strength but really just barely noticeable. Up to this point it is probably just the low dosed orals contributing. Very little sides -- slightly bloated, a little night sweating, but really nothing serious. Looking forward to seeing something from the tren-e soon.
 
Sorry for the lack of updates. There has been little to report until today -- but I think the tren-e is now kicking! Serious night sweats last night and I definitely appeared leaner this morning. I was becoming frustrated and ended up boosting the tren-e to 600mg weekly and also reduced the test-c to 250mg weekly. Now that it is really starting to kick in I hope I don't regret the decision to bump.

To save everyone the time -- I know, I know, I should have used ace. But I'm a big boy and will deal with the sides if necessary.

Started the IGF-1 this week. I pinned it into my biceps intra-workout yesterday and they are still pumped today! The pump is cool, but I'm really looking for the long-term effects from the IGF-1 (hyperplasia).

I'll be benching tonight. I'm really hoping to see some strength gains.
 
Well guys I wish I had more to report, but this cycle is kicking in sloooow! Some minor comp changes and I'm routinely experiencing night sweats. Strength is up very slightly, but the gains so far are not much more than what I would have achieved without tren.

Currently at the beginning of week 4. Last week I bumped the tren-e to 600mg per week dosed mon/thr. Also reduced test-c to 250mg per week. So far the sides are manageable.

Monday: overhead press 175x1 -- new PR by 5lb. But was very close to locking this out on my last attempt three weeks ago.
Today: squat (deep) 285x1 -- also new PR by 5lb.

When should I expect to start seeing the serious tren strength gains everyone talks about? Hoping to press 185, squat 300, bench 315, and dl 450 by the end of week 8 -- is this unreasonable?

Diet is right on as outlined in the OP. Overall energy and sleep are pretty good (besides the sweating). Some work stress, but nothing too severe.

Edit: actually my diet is down from the op. It's now 3,000 kcal. The reduction is all carbs.
 
Today is half way point in the cycle. Really looking forward to the second half. I'm bumping my cardio up starting today.

Last few days have not been perfect diet-wise. Thanksgiving, left overs, and a family restaurant dinner put me over some -- although nothing too crazy. If I had to guess maybe an extra 2,000 kcal this weekend.

Yesterday's workout was helping a Buddy move furniture. Although today was supposed to be an off day, I did 25 minutes of cardio this afternoon.

I'm doing a major reset on my 5/3/1 lifts. This will result in much higher reps for the next several weeks. This should go well with the second half if the cycle. Long term this is also very helpful in breaking through strength plateaus.

I look a little bloated lately, but just in the belly / lower back -- no face bloat. Then again maybe it's body fat. Did I mention that I'm looking forward to the second half of the cycle? So far I'm very underwhelmed by tren-e.

I'll update stats tomorrow.
 
Updated stats: 192.8lb (+3.8lb from start) @ 14.2% (+0.1% from start).

So for the first half of this cycle I gained 3.1 lbs of lean mass and 0.7 lbs of fat. No real strength gains thus far.

Did overhead pressing today: 5/3/1 lift 130x8. Followed by 5x5 at 115lb. Then four supersets of dips, lateral raises, and upright rows.

Diet remains at 3,000 kcal (320 carb, 255 pro, 75 fat). Besides Thanksgiving and the couple of days following my diet has been spot on.
 
I'm beginning to think that I may be a very strange case of someone who retains water on tren. I know this is not suppose to happen, but I did a search and there are actually a few others that this has happened to.

A year or so ago I did a heavy cycle of a prohormone that converts to trenbolone. At that time I was very confused by my lack of leanness after twelve weeks of intense dieting (cyclical keto), volume training, and double 45-min cardio sessions. However, once the cycle was over (back to trt test dose) I dropped weight lack mad and got REALLY lean -- all within a few weeks of ending the cycle. So I figured whatever was in the ph was not really tren. After all no one retains water from real tren -- right?

I think the same thing may be happening with my tren-e cycle. I'm starting to see some composition changes. My arms and shoulder look bigger. However, my stomach is a little bloated which is making it look like I've actually gained body fat. My diet is spot on and overall calories are slightly less than where they were prior to this cycle. There is no way I should be gaining fat -- especially on 750mg tren per week.

I'm still unsure if strength gains are kicking. I will know for sure tomorrow when I bench. I'm hoping the weight feel light and I'm able to push out several more reps than expected.
 
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