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Changing from Axiron gel to Cypionate IM injections - question

flood

flood

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IML Gear Cream!
My endo has me on 50cc's of cyp, so 100mg, every 10 days. He refuses to prescribe Aromasin - or any AI.

The Axiron had me from under range in Free Test to just about mid range. Total T from 383 to 902 (range 348-1197). But Axiron is stupid expensive.

So will this 100mg every 10 days with no AI lose these gains?
Seems like I'll get swings and he hasn't scheduled any BW tests yet to track.
Advice?
 
If youre doing the injections yourself at least do 50mgs every 5th day.
 
That's the advice I was hoping to see, and what I figured - to keep levels more even.

Would it help if I post my 4 BW labs? I'm new to this and a trained eye would be appreciated.
 
flood said:
That's the advice I was hoping to see, and what I figured - to keep levels more even.

Would it help if I post my 4 BW labs? I'm new to this and a trained eye would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

It's not a bad idea. That Axiron got your level up quite high, I wonder what your E2 was on it and why will he not give an AI? If you get up to 900+ again on that amount per week I would be surprised but it seems you respond well considering your previous levels.
 
Thanks oufinny. My endo read a study that shows AI increases intra-abdominal fat (bad stuff).
Here's my labs that show E2, SHGB, Free T, and one shows prolactin - in order;

2013-08-08
Testosterone, Serum 642 348-1197 ng/dL SE

Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 3.6 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL SE

FSH, Serum
FSH 4.8 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL SE

Estradiol
Estradiol 28.8 7.6-42.6 pg/mL SE
_____________________________________
2013-08-12 Testosterone,Free+Weakly Bound
Testosterone, Serum 383 348-1197 ng/dL SE
Testost., % Free+Weakly Bound 8.8 LOW 9.0-46.0 % BN
Testost., F+W Bound 33.7 LOW 40.0-250.0 ng/dL SE

Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 65.3 19.3-76.4 nmol/L SE
______________________________________

2013-10-04
Prolactic 4.3 ng/mL
Test serum (Free test + bio available) 512 ng/dL
% Free test (dialysis) [L] 0.9% Free test, serum 46 pg/mL

______________________________________
10-18-13
Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS
Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 901.6 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL BN
Free Testosterone(Direct) 13.6 7.2-24.0 pg/mL BN
Luteinizing Hormone(LH), S
LH 4.1 1.7-8.6 mIU/mL SE
FSH, Serum
FSH 3.7 1.5-12.4 mIU/mL SE
Estradiol
Estradiol 22.8 7.6-42.6 pg/mL SE
Roche ECLIA methodology
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 66.5 19.3-76.4 nmol/L SE
 
I also recently switch from transdermal test to 50mg test-c + 500iu hCG bi-weekly. Bloodwork showed total test of 1,100 ng/dl. So I'm every 7 days vs your 10 days. The hCG probably added a few points as well.

We're all different, but I think I would have been a couple hundred points lower if I was on your protocol. If your doc is open to prescribing hCG I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.
 
Your lh and fsh is normal, youre not even shut down. Strange.
 
bigmoe65 said:
Your lh and fsh is normal, youre not even shut down. Strange.
Click to expand...

I just saw that but note he's been on a short time; only thing I can think of keeping them in range.
 
Got on Axiron 2 weeks before the last BW.
 
jrock00123 said:
I also recently switch from transdermal test to 50mg test-c + 500iu hCG bi-weekly. Bloodwork showed total test of 1,100 ng/dl. So I'm every 7 days vs your 10 days. The hCG probably added a few points as well.

We're all different, but I think I would have been a couple hundred points lower if I was on your protocol. If your doc is open to prescribing hCG I'd definitely recommend giving it a try.
Click to expand...
He's 3-4 months out to get an appointment but I'll ask. He refuses even AI without labs showing pretty bad need of it.

On a personal note; I'm not having any more kids, the wife doesn't love me for my ballsack, and I'm hoping future PSA results don't make me come off T requiring recovery.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Do you have family history of prostate cancer? If not I wouldn't worry.
 
oufinny said:
I just saw that but note he's been on a short time; only thing I can think of keeping them in range.
Click to expand...

That and only .5 cc every week.

This message was sent by God
 
bigmoe65 said:
If youre doing the injections yourself at least do 50mgs every 5th day.
Click to expand...

Agreed. and you may nto need an AI. when you got for blood work in a couple months check estrogen, if its high press on AI again, if he says no then he doesnt knwo what hes doing and i rec getting a new doc.
 
For sure. I may have to go to a TRT. I wonder if my General Practice Dr can send me and insurance will continue to pick up part. Cyp isn't much out of pocket. How much is Aromasin?
 
blergs. said:
Agreed. and you may nto need an AI. when you got for blood work in a couple months check estrogen, if its high press on AI again, if he says no then he doesnt knwo what hes doing and i rec getting a new doc.
Click to expand...
Found a great TRT doc. Doubled my cyp and added 1/2mg Anastrazole. Has me on every week for both, not every 10 days. He tests for everything you guys recommend and then some.

BW after doing endo's program for 2 months;

Test, total serum barely in range 381 (348-1197)
TSH 1.54 (0.45-4.5)
Prolactin was low! 2.9 (4.0-15.2) wtf?
LH was low 1.5 (1.7-8.6) ...finally shutting down!
Free Test LOW 4.3 (7.2-24)
SHBG 66.4 (19.3-76.4)
Tri-iodothyronine, free, serum 3.4 (2-4.4)
Hematocrit 46.5 (37.5-51)
RBC 5.16 (4.14-5.8)
Estradiol 9.7 (7.6-42.6)

This Dr isn't sure why I' wasn't shut down, but says he thinks I will be at next week's BW test (labs every 2-3 weeks to get me dialed in).
 
Last edited:
My doc has me on .75cc twice a week. I usually do Sunday and Weds. He has me taking Anastrozole .5mg each time I inject. He said it keeps estrogen low and increases Test levels. DHT was high with last labs, so he put me on 5mg finasteride 3 times a week. So far so good.
 
Glad to hear you are doing better!
 
Progress after changing to getting TRT at a Naturopath. 200mg IM cyp 1x week and 1/2mg Anastrozole 1 day after injection.
Insurance covers it;

200mg cyp $25 - I pay 76 cents.
injection service $50 - I pay $4.52
Total $5.28 a week, $21.12/mo, $253.44/yr
Includes exam weekly; checks ankles for puffiness, palpates thyroids, HR, BP, interview and diet.

________________________________

BW Start with ND, 12-2013;

Testosterone serum 381 (348-1197)
Test, free (direct) LOW 4.3 pg/mL (7.2-24)

TSH 1.54 (.45-4.5)
LH 1.5 LOW (1.7-8.6)

SHBG 66.4 (19.3-76.4)

Estradiol 9.7 pg/mL (7.6-42.6)

hematocrit 46.5 (37.5-51)
prolactin LOW 2.9 (4-15.3)

_________________________________

BW at 1 month with ND, 1-2014;

Testosterone serum 934 (348-1197)
Test, free & bioavailable (calculated)
Free T 15.6 ng/dL - 1.67%
Bioavailable 366 ng/dL = 39.2%

LH 0.2 LOW (1.7-8.6)

SHBG 56.7 (19.3-76.4)

Estradiol 26.6 (7.6-42.6)

hematocrit 47.5 (37.5-51)
prolactin LOW 2.3 (4-15.2)

________________________________

Another WTF? in addition to low prolactin is an elevated white & red blood cells and no cold or flu at time of BW, just sore joints still;
RBC 5.25 (4.14-5.8)
WBC 10.1 (3.4-10.8)
 
I switched to that 1 1/2 cc a week of 200mg Test Cyp totaling 300mg a week, after being on testopel for 2 years. He was putting in 18 pellets every 3 months but the last two times it was getting infected and pushing a few pellets out.

Doc said 18 pellets is equal to about 200mg a week.

I feel way better on the injections. Test levels are a bit over 1000, last time was 1087.

Injections are the way to go for me. .75cc twice a week and .5 Anastrozole each inject time. Loving it. All covered by insurance. I pay about $30 a month in scripts.
 
IML Gear Cream!
You're now about where I am with your TRT. I've been on it for about 18 months and for some reason my Doc is always worried about my total Test getting too high, but it's never been out of the normal range. It's just under 1100 now and that's with me doing 200-300 mg a week IM. I know I feel much better with once a week IM; more than that and it feels like a roller coaster.

Sounds like you found a good Doc and you have it dialed in now; feels good doesn't it!
 
He wants to be sure I'm dialed in - his words - then he'll have me doing IM myself again. Just twice as much and with an AI. I feel great. Why is this natural substance such a damn crime? Docs have no problem prescribing Viagra if you're lagging in the bedroom, but TESTOSTERONE!?!?!???
 
flood said:
He wants to be sure I'm dialed in - his words - then he'll have ne doing IM myself again. Just twice as much and with an AI. I feel great. Why is this natural substance such a damn crime? Docs have no problem prescribing Viagra if you're lagging in the bedroom, but TESTOSTERONE!?!?!???
Click to expand...

True Dat! I don't know what the story is; why it's such a big deal, makes no sense. I feel better now than I've felt in years, so what's the sweat about? If I was 30, with 1100 Test, there wouldn't even be a question, but because I'm 62, it's like a major concern. Stupid, stupid, stupid
 
My levels have been around 1200, with .75cc on Monday, and .75 cc on Thursday. Of Test c-200. Should be hitting 300mg a week. Take a half anastrozole each injection. Doc is happy.....I feel incredible.

Much better than the pellets! Hope he will keep this going. He even gave me finasteride for my prostate....haha...side effect....my head will look like a fuckin Chia pet in 6 months! score!!!! hahaha
 
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