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About to throw the towel in after almost 20 years....

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plenty of huge guys dont squat or deadlift


dex doesnt do deads yes he does...just not heavy
dorian never squatted yes he did early in his career, then switched to hack squats as he felt they better suited his hip structure

Phil Hernon is anti-deadlift too.
he's not "anti-deadlift", he's just a proponent of doing SLDL's. he doesn't believe in doing deads for back.
anyways, im really sorry to hear this V. You can't be huge forever..one day, all of our bodies are going to quit, and all the work we put in - all the years and drugs etc, will fade away. just try to mitigate the damage as best you can so that you can enjoy other things in life.
 
This is going to piss some people off but I take periodic long breaks aftet cycling for a while. By the time I amready to take some time off AAS my joints are shot. i take 6 months off and still work out. I first decrease volume and weight and increase reps. This is to get through the downward trend in anabolism. Then after about 8 weeks I can start increasing again. i always add in some athletic activity here like grappling or running or both. Over the coming months my joints recover. By six months off my joints feel great and I am ready to go. Sure at first I drop muscle nbut a lot of it comes back as the training changes doing forward in the off time. Dan uchaine once said it takes a year to fully recover the joint damage from AAS use. Six months off once in a while helps a lot. Taper off slowly and PCT. Accept the fact that you will lose some mass but hold onto the idea that your body is getting stronger in other ways. The human body can do a great job of healing itself if you give it the right nutrition and rest. The drugs can throw the system off adn over time that can result in some of these problems you are experiencing. Sometimes the thing you would hate to do the most is just the thing you need. Once back on the AAS work better and the size comes back super fast. The net gain is healed joints and rested body ready for growth once again.
 
Vic
I am real sorry to hear this but you know whats best. You have been around a very long time and we have shared some of the same friends.
I wish nothing but the best for you bro.
Take care of that back and your family.
 
I have gone months just training on machines at higher rep schemes and lower weights. I feel great and those aggravating injuries begin to diminish. Some injuries will never go away but its a good challenge learning how to work around them or even just give that body part a rest. I love looking huge but at the end of the day I feel best when I'm carrying less mass.

Vic we are here for you brother. Feel free to hit me up via PM anytime brother.
 
Agree with heavy. You can maintain a large degree of mass with machines only. I'm still hitting it old school but resort to machines for change. Be creative and don't stop. Being regular is for others not lifters.
 
Again....thank you all so much for your support. My mind is just all clusterfucked right now....and it's primarily due to the fact that I have to make a huge change in my lifestyle. It doesn't have much to do with staying "BIG"....but at the same time, I don't want to roll over into the double digit bf numbers.

I've decided I'm going to make a very long and detailed journal as to what I can and can not do in the gym. Legs were mentioned, and most anything with legs puts stress where it shouldn't. I'm going to try and use every motion in the book and see what I can and can not do. And from there, see if there is a formula that can keep me from losing more than I all ready have....and hey, perhaps start adding again. I'm not going to let this thing beat me. Right now....I'm one mean motherfucker and I feel so bad watching myself taking it out on my loved ones. I apologize for it afterwards....but I'm now starting to get my head screwed on back right. My wife has been by my side and she totally understands where I'm coming from and she is more than willing to help me in any way she can.

The wost things are when I bend over to pick something up and I feel a pinch in my back that breaks me down to my knees. I swear and start using profanity...I will miss a step on the stairs and nearly kill myself falling down, and yep....I start getting all pissed at myself again. I've learned to move around and use my arms to carry and move most of my weight. Getting in and out of my car, climbing stairs, taking a bath, etc....I use my arms and upper body as to not slip up an fuck anything up. Anyway....thanks again for all your support. I'll let you guys know how I'm doing in the next few weeks. Again.....thank you. Love to all....and God Bless.




/V
 
he's not "anti-deadlift", he's just a proponent of doing SLDL's. he doesn't believe in doing deads for back.
anyways, im really sorry to hear this V. You can't be huge forever..one day, all of our bodies are going to quit, and all the work we put in - all the years and drugs etc, will fade away. just try to mitigate the damage as best you can so that you can enjoy other things in life.
pretty sure dorian tore a muscle in his hip early on and gave up squats
 
dexs last published back routine


pulldowns
bb rows
RACK DEADS....NOT FROM THE FLOOR
SEATED CABLE ROWS
DB ROWS
OR HS ROWS
 
look at some of the older guys from the golden era that are still in shape. You can find some of their more recent workouts online on youtube. Robby Robinson, Tony Pearson, Andreas Cauhling.. a few others. You can work the muscle really hard without straining the joints. Once you can train without straining the joints the inflammation goes and the muscle supports the joint further and protects it. You just have to be smart. You have built the house. After 25 years of pounding you can maintain a pretty good amount of it with lifting and training smart. I think there are lots of members of boards all around well into their 50s and 60s that still look pretty good and train smart.
 
Glad to hear that you are rethinking things bro. Much support for you here and all the bros here. Keep us posted on your progress.

Icon

Again....thank you all so much for your support. My mind is just all clusterfucked right now....and it's primarily due to the fact that I have to make a huge change in my lifestyle. It doesn't have much to do with staying "BIG"....but at the same time, I don't want to roll over into the double digit bf numbers.

I've decided I'm going to make a very long and detailed journal as to what I can and can not do in the gym. Legs were mentioned, and most anything with legs puts stress where it shouldn't. I'm going to try and use every motion in the book and see what I can and can not do. And from there, see if there is a formula that can keep me from losing more than I all ready have....and hey, perhaps start adding again. I'm not going to let this thing beat me. Right now....I'm one mean motherfucker and I feel so bad watching myself taking it out on my loved ones. I apologize for it afterwards....but I'm now starting to get my head screwed on back right. My wife has been by my side and she totally understands where I'm coming from and she is more than willing to help me in any way she can.

The wost things are when I bend over to pick something up and I feel a pinch in my back that breaks me down to my knees. I swear and start using profanity...I will miss a step on the stairs and nearly kill myself falling down, and yep....I start getting all pissed at myself again. I've learned to move around and use my arms to carry and move most of my weight. Getting in and out of my car, climbing stairs, taking a bath, etc....I use my arms and upper body as to not slip up an fuck anything up. Anyway....thanks again for all your support. I'll let you guys know how I'm doing in the next few weeks. Again.....thank you. Love to all....and God Bless.




/V
 
IML Gear Cream!
As many of you guys know, I'm suffering from severe back issues. Back issues that can really cause me some permanent damage if I'm not careful. As most of us know, if you can't squat or dead lift....you really are not going to grow that much. I know this from personal experience and it's a fact. I can not put pressure on my back, and that limits me on what I can and can not do in the gym. In a nut shell....I can no longer do half the shit I used to be able to do in the gym without insane pain and the use of strong pain killers. I'm more or less fucked.

I worked almost 20 years to get the body I have, and as each week passes, I see all those years of hard gains starting to disappear. And it breaks my heart. Running cycles with 2-3gr of oil is now just a waste. I've been trying for the past 8 months or so to try different methods/programs to keep my gains...but without the proper training, it can't happen. I am going to lose what I gained no matter what. Sure, I could take the risk of squatting, dead lifting, leg pressing, etc....but in doing so, I could very well end up in a wheel chair for the rest of my life. There are some risky surgeries that I can try, but even the doctors told me they are all risky and NONE of them are 100%. I hit a max of 278 in my life, now I'm floating in the 230 region and my bf% is climbing.

In short, I will be cruising on a low dose of test and about 250mg of deca every week, just to help with my joints and my bones. And I will still be taking GH, I just won't be using slin and IGF in conjunction with it. I am going to have to lead a completely different lifestyle from here on in.

Fuck...I, I don't even know what I'm going to do with my arsenal of gear, AI, SERMS, etc. I just picked up a couple hundred hits of proviron because I run that shit at 150mg ED. I finally made the decision to do all that I can to keep my gains to the best of my ability with LIGHT workouts. I will continue to go hard where my back is not effected....but most every movement puts stress on my back.

All my problems aside, I will still be here and I will still do my best to help out the community to the best of my ability. I'm ever so sad I have to make this call....but I don't want to risk not being able to walk for the rest of my life. I want to start a family one day, my wife and I want to have kids soon.....and if my back snaps.....well, what the fuck kind of father will I be sitting from a wheelchair? So, all I will be doing is GH, test, and deca. And as for all my gear, I don't know what I'm going to do with it all. Maybe give some away to my boys on their birthdays or give some to my clients. Later guys.....




/V
have you tried DMSO for your pain??
 
As many of you guys know, I'm suffering from severe back issues. Back issues that can really cause me some permanent damage if I'm not careful. As most of us know, if you can't squat or dead lift....you really are not going to grow that much. I know this from personal experience and it's a fact. I can not put pressure on my back, and that limits me on what I can and can not do in the gym. In a nut shell....I can no longer do half the shit I used to be able to do in the gym without insane pain and the use of strong pain killers. I'm more or less fucked.

I worked almost 20 years to get the body I have, and as each week passes, I see all those years of hard gains starting to disappear. And it breaks my heart. Running cycles with 2-3gr of oil is now just a waste. I've been trying for the past 8 months or so to try different methods/programs to keep my gains...but without the proper training, it can't happen. I am going to lose what I gained no matter what. Sure, I could take the risk of squatting, dead lifting, leg pressing, etc....but in doing so, I could very well end up in a wheel chair for the rest of my life. There are some risky surgeries that I can try, but even the doctors told me they are all risky and NONE of them are 100%. I hit a max of 278 in my life, now I'm floating in the 230 region and my bf% is climbing.

In short, I will be cruising on a low dose of test and about 250mg of deca every week, just to help with my joints and my bones. And I will still be taking GH, I just won't be using slin and IGF in conjunction with it. I am going to have to lead a completely different lifestyle from here on in.

Fuck...I, I don't even know what I'm going to do with my arsenal of gear, AI, SERMS, etc. I just picked up a couple hundred hits of proviron because I run that shit at 150mg ED. I finally made the decision to do all that I can to keep my gains to the best of my ability with LIGHT workouts. I will continue to go hard where my back is not effected....but most every movement puts stress on my back.

All my problems aside, I will still be here and I will still do my best to help out the community to the best of my ability. I'm ever so sad I have to make this call....but I don't want to risk not being able to walk for the rest of my life. I want to start a family one day, my wife and I want to have kids soon.....and if my back snaps.....well, what the fuck kind of father will I be sitting from a wheelchair? So, all I will be doing is GH, test, and deca. And as for all my gear, I don't know what I'm going to do with it all. Maybe give some away to my boys on their birthdays or give some to my clients. Later guys.....




/V

How old are you? I train DC bro, and am 42. NO, at 42, I'll not be able to pull the shit I used to even a mere 5 years ago. If you're over 40, you're prone to injury, period. I limit myself to the STRICTEST form anyone's ever seen; heavy weights, but more reps now-no more benching for 3, etc., I also no longer barbell squat (back-ouch!), and will do deads, but for 11-15, meaning not too damned heavy, lol. It sucks not being able to squat 505 for 20 anymore. I think of that now, and literally wonder who the hell I was then:( You're FAR from the towel in the ring, however.
 
Thanks for the kind words guys. But after doing some math, I can no longer do about 80% of motions I used to do when I was training. There is no way I can get back close to 50 lbs. of LBM. I can use all the AAS, GH, Slin, and IGF in the world....and I'll just become fat. I am working extra hard on the things that I can do in the gym, but I still see the hard earned mass slowly start to go away. And this has also been a major mind fuck for me....I don't know what to do with myself. I have seen doctors ALL OVER THE WORLD, and some say one thing, and others say another. I always thought an MRI was an MRI and what it shows is what it is. No. I was told by 5 doctors that I have these conditions....

spondylolisthesis
lumbar radiculopathy
scoliosis
degenerative disk desease
hip deterioration (because of prolonged limp in my walk)
nerve damage
2 ruptured disks
spina bifida
spinal stenosis

I know I was born with some of these conditions and I doubt I have ALL of them, I know during my MMA days I received some nasty injuries. I wake up in my sleep with tears in my eyes brothers. I've done traction, MBB injections, epidurals, etc. Nothing has helped. I walk with a limp, and am on an array of pain killers. I didn't bring this up so you guys can feel sorry for me....I just wanted to you guys to know that back injuries are not to be taken lightly. I always see guys working out without a belt, I beg of you....wear the fuckn belt and learn proper form.

My option is to fill my back with metal disks, screws, nuts, bolts, and cages. And yes, one TINY little slip of the hand and I'm rolling on two wheels for the rest of my life. I won't roll that dice. I'll take the meds and deal with the fuckn pain. But in no fuckn way will I risk not walking again. Peace fellas....God bless you all.




/V

You were born with several, including the scoliosis.
And GUARANTEE you've done EXACTLY what I've done, and that's "over develop" your pecs. (Who doesn't if a serious ironhead? Lol) What this does is cause you to round your shoulders. Try this: stand straight, with your arms and hands relaxed at your sides. Now look in the mirror and see which way your thumbs are pointing. Guarantee they're turned it somewhat, or possibly alot. Now slowly turn your wrists to the point where your thumbs are pointing forward. Yes, this is where you SHOULD be in your posture. Look in the mirror after "getting your thumbs straight," and see the improvement.
 
Again....thank you all so much for your support. My mind is just all clusterfucked right now....and it's primarily due to the fact that I have to make a huge change in my lifestyle. It doesn't have much to do with staying "BIG"....but at the same time, I don't want to roll over into the double digit bf numbers.

I've decided I'm going to make a very long and detailed journal as to what I can and can not do in the gym. Legs were mentioned, and most anything with legs puts stress where it shouldn't. I'm going to try and use every motion in the book and see what I can and can not do. And from there, see if there is a formula that can keep me from losing more than I all ready have....and hey, perhaps start adding again. I'm not going to let this thing beat me. Right now....I'm one mean motherfucker and I feel so bad watching myself taking it out on my loved ones. I apologize for it afterwards....but I'm now starting to get my head screwed on back right. My wife has been by my side and she totally understands where I'm coming from and she is more than willing to help me in any way she can.

The wost things are when I bend over to pick something up and I feel a pinch in my back that breaks me down to my knees. I swear and start using profanity...I will miss a step on the stairs and nearly kill myself falling down, and yep....I start getting all pissed at myself again. I've learned to move around and use my arms to carry and move most of my weight. Getting in and out of my car, climbing stairs, taking a bath, etc....I use my arms and upper body as to not slip up an fuck anything up. Anyway....thanks again for all your support. I'll let you guys know how I'm doing in the next few weeks. Again.....thank you. Love to all....and God Bless.




/V

You should have been using a journal from the very beginning for the gym. I can't grow if I can't remember how much more I need to lift this week vs the last. Anyhow, you're a candidate for surgery. If you don't entertain this now, you'll DESPISE life later. Instead of me going further, you need to go here:
http://www.vejthani.com/web-english/spine-center-bangkok-thailand.php
Furthermore: http://hospitalthailand.com/
Keep in mind, I'm an American, living in America. If you're not familiar with the level of care, and technology found in Thailand, you're in for a hell of a surprise. Our hospitals can't hold a candle, to what's going on there in medicine. Only caveat: you'll need cash.
Hang in there bro! You'll have an entirely new outlook after deciding to get done what needs to be done.
 
You were born with several, including the scoliosis.
And GUARANTEE you've done EXACTLY what I've done, and that's "over develop" your pecs. (Who doesn't if a serious ironhead? Lol) What this does is cause you to round your shoulders. Try this: stand straight, with your arms and hands relaxed at your sides. Now look in the mirror and see which way your thumbs are pointing. Guarantee they're turned it somewhat, or possibly alot. Now slowly turn your wrists to the point where your thumbs are pointing forward. Yes, this is where you SHOULD be in your posture. Look in the mirror after "getting your thumbs straight," and see the improvement.

And by "turn wrists to where thumbs point forward," means, slowly roll your shoulders back until thumbs face forward. Hold that, see the difference, then turn to side, and see the difference. Problem is,,I bet you're not able to hold that for long periods without aggravating your already "domino effect" condition(s).

again, hang in there! This can be corrected.
 
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