Var cycle, diet, and training experiences!

[sassy69]

Was scanning the posts for more info on AAS for my wife and saw this thread and thought I would share the experience my wife had with it. She has been on it about 4 months off and on. 8 weeks on and then 8 off. I know they say you can run var without a break but we decided to go on the cautious side. We also track our macros and count everything. At first she was eating a similar diet higher in fat and lower in carbs. We noticed with this diet we were unable to make much progress with leaning out even with cardio 3 times a week and at a deficiency of overall calories up to 500 a day. She got stronger but her goal was the same as the OP.

We switched to a high protein low fat and middle of the road carb diet like 50 protein, 20 fat, and 30 carbs. The difference was night and day. In both scenarios she stayed with a 7.5mg dose a day. Maybe just what her body likes but it worked much better. She was able to shed pounds of fat while gaining lean muscle. in the past 4 months she has gained about 10 pounds of muscle and lost 4 points on the BF and is now nearing 10% BF. at 5'7" and 115 pounds. When we started training her about 7 years ago she was only about 110 pounds and 18%BF.

What I hypothesize happened in explaining the difference between the 2 diets and the reason for the dramatic difference is that. We were taking a cheat day once a week and the low carb high fat made her extremely insulin sensitive, so when we ate a little loosely on the cheat day the extra carbs triggered a huge insulin response that made her hold water. That coupled with the high fat put her body in a state where the day of and the day after the cheat day she was laying down fat and storing the extra glucose and water. Which would result in it taking her days to get back to the lower weight she previously had the week before. It also was not just weight. It was water and additional fat which was confirmed by BF testing using calipers and once we paid for the water emersion test at the day before cheat day and then again the second day after the cheat day.

So now she runs a middle of the road carb intake, her workouts are much more productive, she is not bonking out towards the end of the week, she is losing fat and gaining muscle. With the carbs being higher all week the cheat day ends up being more like steak and wine. Other than pizza and pasta. We just don't crave the big carb meals anymore. As a result the insulin sensitivity is back to normal and no huge swings in weight the days after the cheat day. It's much easier on her body she would complain of her sides aching from bloat after a cheat day with the low carb diet. Now the cheat day is more for our own sanity and less of a stress to the body.

Women have unique challenges in this game. Different than men. the whole hormone cycle is another story that would compound the insulin response with added bloat with the low carb diet. Anyway just wanted to share our experience and what we found to work which is similar to what the OP is trying to achieve.

I was curious - w/ those stats and not knowing anything else about your wife, I would guess she's an ecto / hardgainer. Someone like that I would probably say, is wasting time w/ a low carb diet. You didn't explicitly call say it was a keto diet or not- but esp women tend to go w/ these 'low carb' diets that aren't enough to go into ketosis, but are low enough to pretty much starve the body of any sufficient energy source - and they just end up stalling out and feeling like shit. Unless you're interested in doing a serious growth period / bulker diet, I'm a huge fan of carb cycling - basically put the high carb days on the days you're going to use them w/ heavy lifting. I've done most of my contest preps on ~1750 cals with a carb cycle. I've done a couple overly aggressive keto-based preps that ultimately just burned me out, but I guess I'll just call it an experiment. I think there are times when a keto diet has it's purpose, but if you don't do it right, it's not going to get you what you want. Generally sufficient carbs allow your body to set up a metabolic burn rate that is mindboggling. It is truly amazing when you get the perfect fuel & burn balance!

I'm NOT an ecto - my operating weight back when I started competing was 5'7" and around 150 lb. I dieted down to ~7% / 133 lb, but still felt like a bag of bones. My more recent competition weights have been more like 147 because I've added more muscle after 10 yrs of competing. Goign forward, particularly w/ the variety of wear & tear issues that I have, I would like to get back to competing around 140 lb. Dump some muscle and tighten up the rest


FWIW I want to keep reiterating the value of spending the bulk of your time scrutinizing your diet and your consistency of both diet & training before going to look for drug recommendations. The drugs are still only going to be as good as your foundation. For the previous question about trying to get rid of the post-baby belly fat, I would really take a look at the diet before getting caught up in clen. That stuff can really fuck up your level of stress & quality of sleep even if you are not really sensitive to it, and it will NOT make the difference if you haven't optimized your diet. I've seen it add an edge for someone in competition prep - but that prep was already ultra-optimized and consistent. If it wasn't, IMO the clen would not product better results and for the stress it adds I truly believe that it can negate any fat burning results by increasing cortisol due to stress & shit quality sleep if you are not really on top of the cycle.

 

[SoCalSwole]

I was curious - w/ those stats and not knowing anything else about your wife, I would guess she's an ecto / hardgainer. Someone like that I would probably say, is wasting time w/ a low carb diet. You didn't explicitly call say it was a keto diet or not- but esp women tend to go w/ these 'low carb' diets that aren't enough to go into ketosis, but are low enough to pretty much starve the body of any sufficient energy source - and they just end up stalling out and feeling like shit. Unless you're interested in doing a serious growth period / bulker diet, I'm a huge fan of carb cycling - basically put the high carb days on the days you're going to use them w/ heavy lifting. I've done most of my contest preps on ~1750 cals with a carb cycle. I've done a couple overly aggressive keto-based preps that ultimately just burned me out, but I guess I'll just call it an experiment. I think there are times when a keto diet has it's purpose, but if you don't do it right, it's not going to get you what you want. Generally sufficient carbs allow your body to set up a metabolic burn rate that is mindboggling. It is truly amazing when you get the perfect fuel & burn balance!

I'm NOT an ecto - my operating weight back when I started competing was 5'7" and around 150 lb. I dieted down to ~7% / 133 lb, but still felt like a bag of bones. My more recent competition weights have been more like 147 because I've added more muscle after 10 yrs of competing. Goign forward, particularly w/ the variety of wear & tear issues that I have, I would like to get back to competing around 140 lb. Dump some muscle and tighten up the rest


FWIW I want to keep reiterating the value of spending the bulk of your time scrutinizing your diet and your consistency of both diet & training before going to look for drug recommendations. The drugs are still only going to be as good as your foundation. For the previous question about trying to get rid of the post-baby belly fat, I would really take a look at the diet before getting caught up in clen. That stuff can really fuck up your level of stress & quality of sleep even if you are not really sensitive to it, and it will NOT make the difference if you haven't optimized your diet. I've seen it add an edge for someone in competition prep - but that prep was already ultra-optimized and consistent. If it wasn't, IMO the clen would not product better results and for the stress it adds I truly believe that it can negate any fat burning results by increasing cortisol due to stress & shit quality sleep if you are not really on top of the cycle.

Yes she is definitely an Ectomorph. But she had a lot of stubborn fat is weird places like the side of the legs near the knee and in the lower leg. So we tried the keto diets which I had used in the past with great success. I used to be extremely overweight like 240 (endomorph for sure) with no muscle tone. I was pretty much on a low carb diet for 5 years straight to lean out. I didn't know back then what I know now so as you could imagine my gains were little to non for a few years. We tried the carb cycling with her and it just didn't work it made her way too insulin sensitive. We would basically go low to no carb until we skated the edge of ketosis using the keto stix and then we did 2 days of fairly high carbs. I did very well on this diet. The anabolic response I got after the carb days was amazing I would gain a good 5-7 pounds on the carb days. and then lose it all plus another pound by the next carb days. So it was working well on me and I was gaining. But she was just staying the same. She was having lousy workouts on the days with no carbs and then the days with carbs she was so uncomfortable and bloated she didn't want to train. Her weight would go up and down like mine except she would never drop the additional pound like I was.

Eventually I got lean enough (around 10%) that I too was getting the same results as her. So we switched over to a more balanced diet with low fat and like I mentioned before the difference was night and day. Which is why I believe that the low carb protocols work better for people who have more fat to lose. Once you get down in the low teens I have found they are much less effective.

I also would like to reiterate your view on AAS and other stimulants. I personally have been training for about 11 years and only the past 3 have I been experimenting with AAS. My wife has been training for about 7 years and only this past year has she decided to try a low dose of Var. I truly believe that it is important to go as far as you can naturally first and figure out how to diet and train properly before even thinking about trying other things. I cringe daily at the threads by younger men just started training this year and are asking how to take tren and DNP and all kinds of stuff that even the veteran user with years of experience would treat with utmost respect.

 

[PLpb]

Interesting to hear the different way she experimented with carbs and how she felt. I feel like it's easy for me to gain fat as well as muscle.. Interesting "carbs can set a metabolic burn rate" I think this is very true.

 

[SoCalSwole]

Interesting to hear the different way she experimented with carbs and how she felt. I feel like it's easy for me to gain fat as well as muscle.. Interesting "carbs can set a metabolic burn rate" I think this is very true.

Yes indeed. It is also possible back then we were missing part of the equation as well. Sassy has been around the block a few times so if she is saying the low carb diet has its purpose then I'll take that as gospel. But it is really true that the low fat balanced diet is harder to dial in and get right. You really have to count everything and play with it until you get the sweet spot. The keto diets are easier to figure out, don't eat carbs until this happens, then eat some carbs until this happens and repeat. The other way is for more disciplined people who are dialed in to the point of obsession. You have to really have will power because its really easy to make the wrong choices and even talk yourself into it fitting in when it doesn't. Also why it's important to have a partner.

One last thing for men the macro diets are easier to. Well I should say for people who have a higher BMR. I am allowed over 2800 cals for maintenance. My wife is half my weight and only is allowed 1500 so a slip up for her is enough to ruin the entire day. I on the other hand can eeek out a good day even if a poor choice is made earlier in the day.

 

[sassy69]

Yes she is definitely an Ectomorph. But she had a lot of stubborn fat is weird places like the side of the legs near the knee and in the lower leg. So we tried the keto diets which I had used in the past with great success. I used to be extremely overweight like 240 (endomorph for sure) with no muscle tone. I was pretty much on a low carb diet for 5 years straight to lean out. I didn't know back then what I know now so as you could imagine my gains were little to non for a few years. We tried the carb cycling with her and it just didn't work it made her way too insulin sensitive. We would basically go low to no carb until we skated the edge of ketosis using the keto stix and then we did 2 days of fairly high carbs. I did very well on this diet. The anabolic response I got after the carb days was amazing I would gain a good 5-7 pounds on the carb days. and then lose it all plus another pound by the next carb days. So it was working well on me and I was gaining. But she was just staying the same. She was having lousy workouts on the days with no carbs and then the days with carbs she was so uncomfortable and bloated she didn't want to train. Her weight would go up and down like mine except she would never drop the additional pound like I was.

Eventually I got lean enough (around 10%) that I too was getting the same results as her. So we switched over to a more balanced diet with low fat and like I mentioned before the difference was night and day. Which is why I believe that the low carb protocols work better for people who have more fat to lose. Once you get down in the low teens I have found they are much less effective.

I also would like to reiterate your view on AAS and other stimulants. I personally have been training for about 11 years and only the past 3 have I been experimenting with AAS. My wife has been training for about 7 years and only this past year has she decided to try a low dose of Var. I truly believe that it is important to go as far as you can naturally first and figure out how to diet and train properly before even thinking about trying other things. I cringe daily at the threads by younger men just started training this year and are asking how to take tren and DNP and all kinds of stuff that even the veteran user with years of experience would treat with utmost respect.

This is why I always make that comment in a thread, and not necessarily directed at the thread starter, but those reading it. Particularly women who are around guys who cycle start getting that recommendation when they dont' like their current body composition - the difference however, is that the guy usually has several years of gymrat lifestyle and discipline as a starting foundation - and most women don't. They just want the quicky fix. This approach both sets the wrong expectation about what the drugs do, and constantly illustrate the fact that so many people are so ready to start popping some underground chemical (holy fuck .. dnp) before they would suck it up for 3 weeks and stick to a diet and get out & move around a little bit.

Your post is a perfect example of actually spending the time to better understand how YOUR body works w/ different diets. I LOVED keto dieting - it was so easy for me as I have essentially lost my flavor for food and meal time is more simply "fueling time" - shovel it down and move on. Even worse, I go in phases of being able to stomach chicken or not - I'm completely lost when I'm in "I can't stand to even look at it" state. That's where I am right now. I would pay cash money to not have to eat right now. Sucks! But I also know over time, the phases I go thru, what works, what doesn't. But I also have learned that there are no constants when it comes to your body. While you are doing these experiments to better understand how your body works, your body is still changing in how it responds to the diets, and time is passing --> you are aging all the time. The last 4 years has been dramatic for me going thru peri- menopause and trying to figure out wtf is going on. It still all goes back to your consistency and patience with the protocol, and constant small tweaks w/ what you are doing. If that isn't already part of your view of "fitness" , then throwing in steroids and various other controlled substances isn't going to do the heavy lifting. Educate yourself!

 

[SoCalSwole]

This is why I always make that comment in a thread, and not necessarily directed at the thread starter, but those reading it. Particularly women who are around guys who cycle start getting that recommendation when they dont' like their current body composition - the difference however, is that the guy usually has several years of gymrat lifestyle and discipline as a starting foundation - and most women don't. They just want the quicky fix. This approach both sets the wrong expectation about what the drugs do, and constantly illustrate the fact that so many people are so ready to start popping some underground chemical (holy fuck .. dnp) before they would suck it up for 3 weeks and stick to a diet and get out & move around a little bit.



Your post is a perfect example of actually spending the time to better understand how YOUR body works w/ different diets. I LOVED keto dieting - it was so easy for me as I have essentially lost my flavor for food and meal time is more simply "fueling time" - shovel it down and move on. Even worse, I go in phases of being able to stomach chicken or not - I'm completely lost when I'm in "I can't stand to even look at it" state. That's where I am right now. I would pay cash money to not have to eat right now. Sucks! But I also know over time, the phases I go thru, what works, what doesn't. But I also have learned that there are no constants when it comes to your body. While you are doing these experiments to better understand how your body works, your body is still changing in how it responds to the diets, and time is passing --> you are aging all the time. The last 4 years has been dramatic for me going thru peri- menopause and trying to figure out wtf is going on. It still all goes back to your consistency and patience with the protocol, and constant small tweaks w/ what you are doing. If that isn't already part of your view of "fitness" , then throwing in steroids and various other controlled substances isn't going to do the heavy lifting. Educate yourself!

Amen sister!!

 

[PLpb]

More wise words from Sassy

 

[JerseyDevil]

This thread is packed full of useful information. Good job Sassy and good questions being asked by the posters.

 

[PLpb]

This thread is packed full of useful information. Good job Sassy and good questions being asked by the posters.

I have found the info helpful. I'm hoping to keep the thread alive for a while Til I complete my first cycle so I can provide my experience.

 

[Riles]

bump for updates

 

[PLpb]

So, I had consistent strength gains, noticeable muscle gain, and minimal sides. I ate around maintenance (some days above, some below). So far I still maintained my strength and muscle!


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