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Originally posted by Twin Peak
Good point, Eric. Because we all know that no one in bodybuilding uses illegal substances. :eek:
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Yeah, and I hope THEY are eradicated as well.
 
Originally posted by Prince

Eric, I hear you on the building our bodies naturally, but it's ironic that you make that statement when you're currently employed by a supplement company. :shrug:
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And your point? :D

Hey, if I was let go tomorrow I have a dozen other things I could do. Its only a job....well, its a very very good job, but still, I don't plan on being here forever anyway.
 
Here is a sampling of an exchange between Pat Arnold and I on the topic. While not a lawyer, Pat is very knowledgable on legal issues related to the industry -- at least in my experience.

ChemicalPA,Mar 16 2004, 10:06 AM
the way to fight it would be to show it is in the food supply, then when they bitch and moan about safety you can fight that too (cuz the burden of proof would then be on the FDA, not the manufacturer). Due to adandoment of the USFA by its orignal supporters (which were limited to begin with) the financial support for fighting prohormone legislation in congress has dwindled down to a trickle though, so there are no funds to support such a battle. It is a shame, becuase such a stand could mean so so much down the road. I don't wanna go into this anymore, i know i sound like a broken record
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Par Deus,Mar 16 2004, 11:42 AM
The law and the FDA's position, as it was laid out in the other thread, seems to indicate that being in the food supply only makes it qualify as a new dietary supplement, but that you still have to get approval from the FDA if it was not grandfathered in (i.e. in supps pre-1994), and this requires evidence showing the new ingredient should be safe -- i.e. burden of proof switched to us.
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Twin Peak
Almost.

In that other thread we established that a dietary ingredient needed to be:

1) sold as such prior to 1994 OR
2) "which have been present in the food supply as an article used
for food in a form in which the food has not been chemically
altered".

And, as I said there:
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What is "as an article used as food"? Does that mean that andro must be food? Or does it just mean that it must be present in food?

For example, lets say green tea was not market as a dietary supplement prior to 1994. It would then be a New Dietary Ingredient. But it could be used in a Dietary Supplement with the Supplement being adulterated because "present in the food supply as an article used
for food in a form in which the food...."

See where I am going? I am not saying one is right or wrong, just that it is not so black and white.
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Pat takes the position that "present in the food supply" satisfies option 2 above.

FDA (with respect to andro) takes the position that (2) means that it is sold as a dietary ingredient in the same form and the same dosage, as it is used for food.
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I discuss it at length here:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=1&t=8850&hl=dshea&

and here:


http://forum.avantlabs.com/?act=ST&f=1&t=8717&hl=dshea&
 
One of the funniest things I've read................

QUOTE (larmenta @ Mar 11 2004, 09:52 AM)
It is coming soon, so really all of us Supp companies need to get together and fight for ours and our consumers rights. Also, all the consumers need to flood their senetors offices with letters opposing this..

ChemicalPA.....
we tried that. petty jealousy and egos ruined everything

we are in an industry that is 5% decent folks and 95% wackos, egomaniacs, bipolars, and downright evil motherfuckers

wait a minute.....5% is probably a gross overestimate
 
After doing some reading, all the companies that got letters to stop selling androstenedione, has 15 days to reply(8 or 9 have past)
 
Pretty standard cease and decist letter.

Basically, they will need to state what action they plan on taking.
 
IML Gear Cream!
Do you know if any plan on fighting it?
 
I haven't heard anything and I would doubt it since its just the dione (for now).

Again, as per my comments above, I don't see how they can fight it.
 
Would m-1-t be included in the ban?
 
There is no ban YET. Just androstenedione being removed.
 
Just write to your congressmen and tell them not to ban it cause it will make their dick bigger and harder, start selling it as a male enhancement product. You know their all suckers for that shit.

I guarantee if they had a pill that made their fat ass wives thirty years younger and sex fiends with side effects of headaches and extreme abdominal cramps, they wouldn't budge to ban it.
 
Originally posted by maniclion
Just write to your congressmen and tell them not to ban it cause it will make their dick bigger and harder, start selling it as a male enhancement product. You know their all suckers for that shit.
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:haha:
 
Please see my post above, this is not a BAN (like the bill in Congress) this is the FDA seeking to enforce the law (as it interprets the law) as to ONLY (for now) androstendione.
 
I was just wondering why the supplment companies wouldn't come together and challenge these hideous bans..but Gopro explained it in his post.

It would be nice if they could set aside EGOs to benefit the industry..LOL..but then I woke up..
 
Originally posted by brodus
HELL YEAH! Preach on, brother, you are right! It's so hypocritical it makes me sick. Sometimes you see an "anti-drug" ad followed by a pharmaceutical ad. I am truly sickened by it all. You know, there are other countries in which direct-to-consumer drug marketing is illegal. We, of course, are not one of them, yet we spend millions convincing normal people they have problems and need prescription drugs.
.
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Big pharma and it's partnership w/ the Feds pisses me off to no end. Think about it, effective and somewhat affordable supplments that contain ECA stacks are banned..but the FDA will approve weight loss aids such as Fen Phen, so big pharma can rip off a clueless and desperate public. I'm not going to scream bc Prince and other have done good a job of it on the thread. :)

Not only are we losing our rights to do what we want with our bodies, the government is forcing us to line the pockets of Big pharma!!:mad:
 
This is why I hope to move to Europe when im older.... To be FREE!
 
IML Gear Cream!
^^^^and to think thousands of people lost their lives trying to get away from them to be free, lol

isnt it ironic?
 
Very much so. I imagine the USA turning into the govt that is in the movie "Escape from LA" They will suppress the people, and when someone even swears in public, they will be put in jail or to death.
 
We are still somewhat better off than the socialist gov'ts of Europe.
 
"There is no proven safe substitute for hard work and training when it comes to improving athletic skill; we will do all we can to protect Americans against companies that seek to profit by trying to convince consumers otherwise.??? -FDA

The best way they could protect me would be to disband completely.
 
Originally posted by SJ69
We are still somewhat better off than the socialist gov'ts of Europe.
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We are the only socialist country that refuses to admit it.
 
Originally posted by Pepper
We are the only socialist country that refuses to admit it.
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Ah you beat me to it ;)
 
i always picture judge dread, with the sea shells, lol
 
Originally posted by RCfootball87
o and while we're at it......FUCK the D.E.A.
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What do u mean fuck the D.E.A? my uncle is in it and thats what i want to do aswell. You shuddent blame them they just enforce the laws they dont make them. Its like getting mad at a soilder in a war instead of the politician who sent him there.
 
Originally posted by IronSlingah
You shuddent blame them they just enforce the laws they dont make them. Its like getting mad at a soilder in a war instead of the politician who sent him there.
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exactly:thumb:

its the dumbfuck politicains that don't know shit. they get their "sources" from stupid doctors and media opinion (shit like Sportscenter that makes steroids/ph's such a big deal). a doctor told me the other day to stay away from creatine cuz it's "terrible" for you.

this is exactly the reason i hate Bush. not to turn this into another Political thread, but honestly, why don't they focus on the important things going on, such as terrorisim, the b.s. war in Iraq and our shitty economy, and not on bodybuilders that take something as petty as andro.
 
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