Is 15-20mins of light-moderat cardio on rest days bad if in a toning period?

[Johnnny]

I was wondering if any of you thought 15-20mins of light-moderat cardio on rest days bad if in a cutting period?

I'm toning up & I was just wondering if this would interfear with recovery if done on rest days with no lifting of any kind?

My current routine is 4 days a week hitting each body part once a week very intensely & hard. I do 15-20mins of light-moderate paced cardio after each lifting period.

Do you think that if I did my cardio in the manner mentioned above would interfear with my body's capability to recover & cause me to be more tired every day? Or would it just help me with my cutting period? Thanks.

 

[P-funk]

Why don't you ask the trainer at your gym with the great physique who used to do steroids but now is not as hard or ripped and is now all natrual??

 

[aztecwolf]

15-20 minutes of light cardio really won't do much for you except perhaps help you in a calorie deficit, which will help you lose weight

 

[Johnnny]

aztecwolf I do usually do light-moderate-heavy I change it up to surprise the body cardio which I find is good for burning fat. But my question was would what I'm doing interfear with my body's recovery from the lifting? I am in a cutting period so shouldn't I increase my amount of cardio along with my good diet? Or should I just do my cardio on training days & rest on off days from lifting?

P-funk man you got a bad attitude. You didn't have to write that, it was unnecessary. But since you gave the suggestion, I think I will get his opinion since you don't have any useful information to add. This is a totally different thread & was uncalled for.

 

[TaPo31]

I would say that you will be fine doing light cardio on off days, depending on how many off days a week you have of course.

 

[Johnnny]

TaPo31 I have now 3 days off a week. So you don't think doing cardio from a moderate pace or so 6 days a week is too much?
Do you think cardio only 4 times a week would be enough to cut up in a descent time period? Or should I do my 15-20mins of moderate cardio (treadmill) 5-6 days a week?

I just don't want to burn myself out physically even though I'm not doing 30+mins of cardio. I would never do more than 20mins.

 

[TaPo31]

I personally don't feel that 5-6 days/week is too much given that you are on a good diet and getting adequate sleep. I am currently on a 4 days/week split with GoPro's P/RR/S routine and I do cardio on two of my off days in addition to 2-3 of my on days. I like to alternate between a HIIT training for 20-25 mins and 30-40 mins at a slower pace. I feel that this keeps my body guessing and it seems to be working fairly well so far.

 

[Johnnny]

TaPo31 30-40 mins? Dayamn dude. I've always been told whether it's a slow pace or a fast pace that more than 20mins of cardio a session even during cutting periods as any more cardio than that would start becoming catabolic. & what good are cuts if you don't have the muscle?

 

[TaPo31]

It's my opinion, and I certainly could be wrong, that as long as you are consuming glutamine and BCAAs or some whey protein prior to doing the cardio, you can avoid catabolism for upwards of 30-40 mins.

 

[P-funk]

P-funk man you got a bad attitude. You didn't have to write that, it was unnecessary. But since you gave the suggestion, I think I will get his opinion since you don't have any useful information to add. This is a totally different thread & was uncalled for.

LOL, relax man, I wasn't being serious. I just had to put that in there for comical reasons.


To answer your question. Why light cardio?? If it is an off day then active rest is great. Go out, walk around, do some yard work, etc....but don't make it a point to go to the gym just to do "light cardio". IMO you are wasting your time. If you want to go and do cardio I recommend doing some sprints followed by some moderate intensity cardio.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk

sprints followed by some moderate intensity cardio.

This is usually what I do on the treadmill. I do about 15-17mins, usually 5 or 6 15second sprints in that time along with 1-2mins at a time of jogging, followed by 1-2mins of heavy walking & then I start the cycle again with a sprint.

But sometimes if I feel tired I will just do 20mins of heavy walking on the treadmill at a 3.5-4.0 speed on the treadmill. Which I find also does a good job of burning fat. This was the type of cardio I was wondering about doing on rest days or should I just rest?

 

[Johnnny]

TaPo31 Thanks for the info, but for me 30+mins is way too much.

 

[CowPimp]

I haven't had problems doing 30 minutes of cardio on two of my off days while still gaining mass. As long as I eat 30-45 minutes before the jog, and ready some oats and protein shakes for when I return, my gains don't seem to be hindered.

 

[Johnnny]

I guess, but with my new routine, I'll probably just do cardio on one of my days off & rest the others.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by P-funk
To answer your question. Why light cardio?? If it is an off day then active rest is great. Go out, walk around, do some yard work, etc....but don't make it a point to go to the gym just to do "light cardio". IMO you are wasting your time. If you want to go and do cardio I recommend doing some sprints followed by some moderate intensity cardio.

I agree with this 100%, I like to take leisure walks.

 

[aztecwolf]

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
I agree with this 100%, I like to take leisure walks.

Same here, or leisure bike rides, it is quite easy when you are 1/2 a mile or so from the beach.
I believe cardio is vital to any training program, the benefits are tenfold, it is true that if you start trying to do to much then it might hinder your results in the gym (happened to me when i was running 5 or so miles a day, surfing, and trying to lift weights, in the same day, on a very shitty low cal diet). But light stuff on your non-lifting days will increase your bloodflow through your system helping you with recovery. I even like doin a little cariod on my lifting days, to warmup, then cool down.

 

[Johnnny]

aztecwolf I always do cardio on lifting days after the lifting though.

 

[TaPo31]

Its my opinion that if you are trying to burn fat, there are two times to do cardio in order to see optimal results, either first thing in the morning or immediately after lifting. Those are the two times when your glycogen stores will be depleted and your body can use more fat as energy.

 

[Johnnny]

TaPo31 yeah I've heard that to about 1st thing in the morning. But I hope you don't do it on an empty stomach. That is very unhealthy. It puts your body into a certain state I forget exactly what it's called, but you will eventually start burning tissue & muscle instead of fat. You will eventually burn out as well.
Your body does need fuel to burn fat. I'm reading a book for my certification course that I'm probably going to take & I'm reading about this subject right now.

 

[P-funk]

I do my cardio on an empty stomach, first thing in the AM, whenver I can.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk sorry to hear that. You are putting your body into an unhealthy state & you will be not only burning some fat if at all, but you'll be burning mostly tissue & muscle mass. Your body needs fuel to burn fat. This is one topic I'm reading about right now in my course book.

 

[TaPo31]

"TaPo31 yeah I've heard that to about 1st thing in the morning. But I hope you don't do it on an empty stomach. That is very unhealthy. It puts your body into a certain state I forget exactly what it's called, but you will eventually start burning tissue & muscle instead of fat. You will eventually burn out as well.
Your body does need fuel to burn fat. I'm reading a book for my certification course that I'm probably going to take & I'm reading about this subject right now."


I believe that state to which you are referring is known as a catabolic state. Your body will typically be in a catabolic state after fasting all night, so I agree that you need something first thing in the morning even before cardio. That being said, I also believe that what you consume should be either 10-15 grams of zero carb whey or, as I do, 5-10 g of both BCAAs and glutamine. These seems to help reverse the catabolic state that I encounter as I sleep and allows me to burn as much fat as possible with little muscle loss.

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by Johnnny
P-funk sorry to hear that. You are putting your body into an unhealthy state & you will be not only burning some fat if at all, but you'll be burning mostly tissue & muscle mass. Your body needs fuel to burn fat. This is one topic I'm reading about right now in my course book.

For every study that you show me that states it is not effective i can show you two more that say it is and vice versa. We can go back and forth. I do take anhydrous caffeine before I do it to try and release some free fatty acids in the blood stream to be used for energy. The main reson that I feel it works is because I have tried it both ways and this works for me. I know my body pretty darn well.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk Like I said I've read this subject written in books for the personal certification courses.

Put it this way, would your car be able to go anywhere without gas? No, same goes for your body. Without fuel, your body can't function properly & if you attempt to train without fuel such as some carbs & protein, you will put your body in a state of:

Ketosis: Ketosis is defined as the buildup of ketones in the bloodstream and basically it is a state when the body produces ketones for fuel, more specifically when blood ketone concentration is higher than glucose concentration. Ketones are byproducts of fat metabolism and are an alternative source of fuel for the brain, heart, skeletal muscle and other oxygen requiring tissues to utilize in times of starvation, carb restriction or prolonged exercise. There are two types of ketones and they are beta-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate. When you first get into ketosis the ketones will provide about 75% of your total energy to the brain, heart, and skeletal muscle. After 1-2 weeks the brain will completely adapt to using ketones as fuel, and you will no longer have problems with mental acuity due to glucose depletion (this is a "side effect", as explained later) if you ever experience this at all. Low insulin levels also increase resting levels of growth hormones, catecholamines, and glucocorticoids that further increase fat burning.


How do I get into ketosis?:As mentioned above ketosis can occur during starvation, carb restriction, or prolonged exercise. Glucagon, the antagonistic hormone to insulin is what ultimately determines if and how much ketones are produced. When insulin is low, glucagon is high, when insulin is almost zero, glucagon is peaked, when glucagon is peaked, fat burning is kicked in high gear and fat storage is halted. In the liver glucagon is responsible for taking fatty acids away from fat stores and toward fat burning for energy. Glucagon is also responsible for stimulating lipase that in turn releases already stored fat, and both of these factors combined equals fat loss and higher energy levels. So, the goal is clear: glucagon up, insulin down. How do you keep insulin at bottom line levels? Carb restriction (less than 30g/day), and the ketogenic diet takes it's place in the fat loss circle.


How do I know when I'm in ketosis?:If you restrict carbs and eat adequate fat (1.5g per 1g of protein) you will undoubtedly get into ketosis within at most 4 days. But, to be sure there are two primary methods: glucometer, ketostix. Glucometers measure the amount of circulating blood glucose, in order to get into ketosis blood glucose levels must fall to about 50-60mg/dl and by using a glucometer we can establish whether or not we are at this level, and whether or not we are in ketosis. When in ketosis excess ketones are excreted in the urine, and by using ketostix to measure the ketone content of your pee you can determine if the body is producing extra ketones, and whether or not you are in ketosis. Either method works fine, most prefer ketostix (which can be picked up at a local drug store) due to convenience.

 

[CowPimp]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Ketones are byproducts of fat metabolism and are an alternative source of fuel for the brain, heart, skeletal muscle and other oxygen requiring tissues to utilize in times of starvation, carb restriction or prolonged exercise.

That is why this method works. I'm not saying that is the best way to go, but I certainly don't disagree with the fact that it works. Thousands of people use this method with great success. It's hard to argue with successful results.

Personally, I don't like to do cardio unless I have had some food in the last hour or so, but I understand the reason why people do it that way. I do cardio for the health benefits such as increased endurance, better overall physical conditioning, increased basal metabolism, stronger immune system, increased blood volume, etc. I could care less about the fat loss.

 

[P-funk]

P-funk Like I said I've read this subject written in books for the personal certification courses

Good for you. Don't ASSume that I am not well read on the subject. I have read a lot on this so the last thing I need is for you to give me a bunch of crap on ketosis written in some shit ass personal training manuel.

How do I know when I'm in ketosis?:If you restrict carbs and eat adequate fat (1.5g per 1g of protein) you will undoubtedly get into ketosis within at most 4 days.

Reall??? that is not true at all. there are more things that have to happen to get you into ketosis besides just eating 1g-1.5g of protein. think about you fat intake?? how many carbs?? Also, some people have a harder time getting into ketosis. You can't say..."Oh, I restrict my carbs and eat protein and in 4 days I'll be in ketosis." It isn't that easy my freind. By some lypolysis sticks and see if you can get yourself into ketosis or not. That will take the guess work out of it for you. also, ketosis is not neccessary fro weight/fat loss....otherwise peopel wouldn't lose weight on calorie restriced diets that don't limit carbs.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk actually I found this information on-line. & there have been several sites providing exactly the same information. So I think they know a few things more than you or I even though I'm reading up on the subject.

I've asked a few local bodybuilders about doing cardio & they've said doing it 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the worst time & thing you could do to your body. With no food especially complex carbs, at this point you're burning tissue & valueable muscle mass instead of fat. Now do you really want to lose valueable muscle? I think not as none of us do.

These bodybuilders even said that if your body doesn't have fuel, it won't function properly. & they compared it to a car without gas that won't go anywhere. Same principle.

At one point I tried this doing 15mins of 15 second sprints 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach & in less than 2 weeks I was beginning to burn out. The first 4 sessions were fine, but even though I was eating my other 6 meals a day, I was beginning to feel dizzy & tired while doing the cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. So that's when I stopped.

But if you want to put yourself in a state of ketosis, than it's your perogative. You'll be losing muscle while I'll be gaining muscle & losing fat.

 

[Yanick]

Originally posted by Johnnny
I've asked a few local bodybuilders about doing cardio & they've said doing it 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the worst time & thing you could do to your body. With no food especially complex carbs, at this point you're burning tissue & valueable muscle mass instead of fat. Now do you really want to lose valueable muscle? I think not as none of us do.

You are taking this way out of context bud. Your body is always turning over protein (synthesizing and oxidating, at the same time) what determines muscle gain or loss is which way of the two were greater. Your body can also use muscle and liver glycogen for fuel, which takes days or low carbing and depletion workouts to get rid of on top of which you have free fatty acids floating around in your blood stream (just like protein turnover, your body is always using fat and carbs as energy at the same time, however the balance is being shifted by various factors).

Originally posted by Johnnny
These bodybuilders even said that if your body doesn't have fuel, it won't function properly. & they compared it to a car without gas that won't go anywhere. Same principle.

don't compare the human body to a car. my left nut is infinitely more complex than the new Toyota Prius Hybrid. Make a 140 HP car perform the 150 HP worth of work and it will blow up...make the human body perform more work than it was designed/accustomed to and it will adapt and be able to perform that work...don't compare cars to humans.

Originally posted by Johnnny
At one point I tried this doing 15mins of 15 second sprints 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach & in less than 2 weeks I was beginning to burn out. The first 4 sessions were fine, but even though I was eating my other 6 meals a day, I was beginning to feel dizzy & tired while doing the cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. So that's when I stopped.

Thats irrelevant...we don't know what your approach was at that particular time. Maybe with all of the sprints and weight training you were just overtraining yourself. Not eating enough, under stress there could be a million reasons why you felt burnt out.

Originally posted by Johnnny
But if you want to put yourself in a state of ketosis, than it's your perogative. You'll be losing muscle while I'll be gaining muscle & losing fat.

Take a look at his journal and pics...it doesn't seem to me that he is having too much trouble with muscle loss.

 

[BlueCorsair]

Now I'm just confused.

We hear on one hand that morning pre-food cardio (HIIT or otherwise) is the best, and then we hear it'll eat your muscle.

It has to be one or the other. Speaking as an ecto who's cutting (go ahead and laugh) I can't afford to fuck this up

I won't do HIIT after a workout - I find it's simply too much, and my metabolism gets ramped from the workout already.

So - on an off day, can one do HIIT at any time, or is the early morning route still the best? I don't see how, but then again, I'm not an expert

Can anyone answer this once and for all?

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by BlueCorsair
Now I'm just confused.

We hear on one hand that morning pre-food cardio (HIIT or otherwise) is the best, and then we hear it'll eat your muscle.

It has to be one or the other. Speaking as an ecto who's cutting (go ahead and laugh) I can't afford to fuck this up

I won't do HIIT after a workout - I find it's simply too much, and my metabolism gets ramped from the workout already.

So - on an off day, can one do HIIT at any time, or is the early morning route still the best? I don't see how, but then again, I'm not an expert

Can anyone answer this once and for all?

Don't be confused, this is an age old debate, much like the one about the upper chest and incline presses. For every study that he shows that says it doesn't work I can show one that says it does and back and forth so I wouldn't worry about it. Also, the fact that I am taking 150-200mg of caffeine before I do the cardio changes things a lot as there is now FFAs in the blood stream to be used as fuel. Even if I don;'t do that though, the intensity level of the sprints wil help to release FFAs so that they can provide energy.

Johnny, Ketosis is not neccessary for wieght loss however it is not a bad thing either. All that means is that your body is using ketones (fat) for fuel. This is much better than using muscle for energy so I don;'t know what the hell your argument is?