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Load of bollux with no **real** science behind it.pengers84 said:Is it true you should avoid combining carbs and fats in the one meal?
i totally disagree. Berardi is one of the best in the business and an example of someone who promotes p/c and p/f. research and science included.Emma-Leigh said:Load of bollux with no **real** science behind it.
Well... Berardi USED to talk about this (in his first 'massive eating' serious the one he put out years ago which is completely stupid in terms of calorie prescriptions)..The13ig13adWolf said:i totally disagree. Berardi is one of the best in the business and an example of someone who promotes p/c and p/f. research and science included.
TONS of information here http://www.johnberardi.com/
Emma-Leigh said:Well... Berardi USED to talk about this (in his first 'massive eating' serious the one he put out years ago which is completely stupid in terms of calorie prescriptions)..
But if you go and take a lot at his more 'recent' stuff (the 'updated' versions) he 'modified' this to "Remember that low GI carbs, and healthy fats are ok" after many 'less than positive comments' from other people in the business.
garethhe said:all i can add is what i've seen from my own experience--for months i've been making a point to have some carbs, fats and proteins in every single meal i eat (except PWO), and i'm quite happy with my results thus far on the program.
'all the research' is very broad. what references are you basing this on?Emma-Leigh said:Except for PWO all the research out suggests that a combination of protein, some carbs (starchy/fruit/vegetable/fibre) and some healthy fats is always beneficial - regardless of whether you are cutting or bulking.
The13ig13adWolf said:he may have received less than positive feedback from various folk and i haven't read his 'modified' articles but there is still a significant amount of information promoting this method of dieting. i, for one, can say that this is the method i use (edit: that my coach uses with all of his clients. he just so happens to be friends with Berardi) which has resulted in the best results i've seen in my entire life in a significantly shorter period of time.
different strokes for different folks. p/c/f works well for some people. while p/f and p/c works for others.
Here is the update of Massive Eating...The13ig13adWolf said:'all the research' is very broad. what references are you basing this on?
you're missing my point entirely. that's irrelevant for the purpose of this argument. i'm simply stating that there is no one 'cookie cutter' method of dieting. both methods exist and neither is 'bollox'. there are success stories on both sides so how can one be more 'correct' than the other? that's just as asinine as saying bodypart training is the ONLY option...it's simply not.PreMier said:Have you ever used a p/c/f approach? And if so, was it strict, and planned like the p/c p/f approach your using now?
P.S. my balls are steel
The13ig13adWolf said:i'm simply stating that there is no one 'cookie cutter' method of dieting. both methods exist and neither is 'bollox'.
there are success stories on both sides so how can one be more 'correct' than the other? that's just as asinine as saying bodypart training is the ONLY option...it's simply not.
how is it illogical to split up your meals in a way that enables your body to utilize the macronutrients it needs at the times they will be best put to use? your body simply does not need p/c/f all day in each meal. however, it would be naive of me to state eating all three in each meal doesn't work because clearly it does...it's just not the only way. let's be a little open minded here.
No, that is not true. Almost every source of carbs has fat, even oatmeal, so it is almost impossible to keep the two seperate. As stated above, some find trying to has benefited them. For someone seeking anabolism, I don't recommend trying to completely eliminate fat from meals with carbs. Whey isolate and skim milk would be about the only protein sources you could have with carbs.pengers84 said:Is it true you should avoid combining carbs and fats in the one meal?
PirateFromHell said:No, that is not true. Almost every source of carbs has fat, even oatmeal, so it is almost impossible to keep the two seperate. As stated above, some find trying to has benefited them. For someone seeking anabolism, I don't recommend trying to completely eliminate fat from meals with carbs. Whey isolate and skim milk would be about the only protein sources you could have with carbs.
where specifically in my post do i come off defensive? you've misread a bit.Jodi said:Don't be so defensive.
nice postThunder said:This really isn't complicated. Do you have to split of carbs and fats to see progress? Of course not. And it's correct that there's no published data to support it either. Mind you, there's really not any that directly refutes it either. Nor is there any published data that I'm aware of that supports something like say, carb/calorie cycling, yet many, many people find it more beneficial than static dieting. It is but ONE way of setting up a diet. Nothing magical, just a convenient way for some people to eat.
It's also true that what tends to be most important is calories, adequate protein, adequate EFAs, etc. As someone said, (paraphrasing) anything that meets those qualifications and isn't stupid will work ... up to a point of course.
I don't think anyone is saying macro splitting is magical. I don't think anyone HAS said that outside of hardcore JB followers back in the day.
There ARE times during the day when you need and want certain macronutrients and times when these same nutrients are less than ideal, or even simply not really needed - and this really just reflects carb intake. Generally speaking, when consumed around greater periods of activity, nutrients tend to be absorbed and utilized more effectively. Everyone knows about the PWO hooplah, so suffice to say it's a period when you want what ideally? Protein and carbs. Not fat. I think everyone (most) will agree with that. Extend that to the Post PWO meal - still going to be predominately protein and carbs depending on goals for many people.
Outside of the hours following an intensive workout, our bodies aren't so cooperative when it comes to making efficient use of nutrients. Once the effects of the workout have worn off, we return to normal physiological functioning, which is characterized by normal insulin sensitivity/resistance and a relative reduction in anabolic hormone levels. The rest of the day has the greatest variability obviously, but for the average person, while protein is a constant, quite simply, you don't need as many carbs, so you can use fat (say fruit as well) as a caloric ballast to help you meet your daily caloric goals and aid in recovery. Basically low carb meals because they're really not needed.
That's it. One way of timing macros according to your training. Not magic. It's not about the magic of macro splitting. It's simply a method of timing macros around periods you need them most.
PreMier said:Captian obvious says Thunder's your coach. He doesnt post here on IM for over 8 months, and now that you are a mod, he comes to post.. backing your/his opinion. Thats funny
The13ig13adWolf said:you're missing my point entirely. that's irrelevant for the purpose of this argument. i'm simply stating that there is no one 'cookie cutter' method of dieting. both methods exist and neither is 'bollox'. there are success stories on both sides so how can one be more 'correct' than the other? that's just as asinine as saying bodypart training is the ONLY option...it's simply not.
how is it illogical to split up your meals in a way that enables your body to utilize the macronutrients it needs at the times they will be best put to use? your body simply does not need p/c/f all day in each meal. however, it would be naive of me to state eating all three in each meal doesn't work because clearly it does...it's just not the only way. let's be a little open minded here.
missing your point. did you have something to add pertaining to the topic?PreMier said:Captian obvious says Thunder's your coach. He doesnt post here on IM for over 8 months, and now that you are a mod, he comes to post.. backing your/his opinion. Thats funny
Its funny because I question where the statements are coming from now. Can you say:Thunder said:Why is it funny? So she told me about the thread, big deal.
PreMier said:having your meals split up int p/c p/f doesnt mean that the macros in those meals are being better used.
Dont fucking question my open mindedness.. I was simply asking a question.
PreMier said:I wasnt missing the point. I was wondering if you had a biased opinion on the subject at hand. IE: never trying the other method.. So basically making an opinionated statement and not a factual one. So you're a success story on one side, thats all.. I never said there was one correct method, but having your meals split up int p/c p/f doesnt mean that the macros in those meals are being better used. Dont fucking question my open mindedness.. I was simply asking a question.
so are you a parrot for siding with emma?PreMier said:Its funny because I question where the statements are coming from now. Can you say:
Tell Robert you should be a mod here too.
PreMier said:Its funny because I question where the statements are coming from now. Can you say:
Tell Robert you should be a mod here too.
PreMier said:Tell Robert you should be a mod here too.