Wordy reply Four - The magic of methylation
>She did mentioned that methylation is what holds the cell together and with out cells would come unglued so to speak.
Ah yes, a reaction type that is common in the body and more recently understood to play a very important role in gene expression and gene maintenance, so it is important to gene transcription, ribosomal translation of transcripts and the protein products, which are modified post translationally, also undergo acetylation / methylation, as well as other modifications.
Its safe to say..it very important.
Now, glutathione metabolism is also predicated on feeds from more than one biosynthetic pathway in the liver. Two of these also donate methyl groups before handing over starting material for glutathione formation. So, there is a tight correlation between the functioning of these pathways. One of them isn't functioning well, chances are, the others aren't either. Hence, your problem with folate regulating homocysteine formation and its reversability for maintenance of methionone.
You, HAN, are methionine deficient. You were probably low going into this debacle, and you tanked it with chemical manipulations..
You can think of these supps as chemical rehab for the liver.
>Could the over dosing on folonic acid, and methycobalonin drop homocysteine m that low ?
No. Its a function of shitty absorption of these supplements from leaky gut, and probably the fact that you have pathway 'leaks' (you aren't recycling glutathione with ascorbate very well, and you may not be shuttling it through the body, if the liver is sucking most of it for itself (uses 70% anyway).
Get my drift? Your body is really short-changed here..on reducing equivalents.
High B6 could scew things up. 100 mg twice a day..time released formula is even better. Have to balance folate and methylcobalamin (there are more active forms of B12 you should look at, maybe consider sublingual format).
Vitamin C for you, is fricking essential, for many reasons, but among them, the cysteine/methionone/folate pathways need it. You need it to regenerate GSH, and my guess is, one is sucking it away from the other other uses.
>Could the altered thyroid cause the homocystein levels to drop and what are the risk factors for hypohomocystemia?
Yes. .
"Most people with a high homocysteine level don't get enough folate (also called folic acid), vitamin B6 or vitamin B12 in their diet. Replacing these vitamins helps return the homocysteine level to normal. Other possible causes of a high homocysteine level include low levels of thyroid hormone, kidney disease, psoriasis, or some medicines."
>I was using Samme due to thinning the bile so liver could clear out toxins and glutethioine production, then did switch to TMG at 1000 mgs TID.
No, you screwed up again. You can reduce somewhat the need for expensive sam-e by supplementing with TMG, but sorry, you can't supplant its use with it. Not a good idea, you need both. For you, 2-4 months minimum 400mg, twice a day, PLUS the TMG, in small doses. Moderation here, we don't want too many methylating equivalents, just enough...an excess has issues as well.
>REason she had me doing the organic butter , whole organic eggs was because my arachonic acids where dangerously because of epa/dha where off the charts preventing the conversion from GLA to arachonic acid. She was working on stabilizing my membranes through Fatty acid imbalances. i stopped the cocconut oil because specific fatty acids from it was off the charts. I stopped the hemp oil awhile ago and actually just throw it out. It was over 6 weeks old.
*shrug* You got a problem that you doctor doesn't quite understand.
The inhibition of AA and inositol by dopamine. It down regulated adrenal function.
Hello??! Yeah, you're not making much GABA, and your dopamine is a little problematic in your brain, your liver and yeah, thyroid and adrenals.
So what we want is to goose up GABA and inositol.
To do that, you take inositol, a little glucuronic acid lactone and a little IP6, not much. 10:2:2 ratio. You take this couple times day, in water. Say 2 tsp worth at a time.
You take taurine, plus magneisum citrate plus GABA (1//4 tsp each). Now, your doctor would argue that GABA won't go up in brain due to BBB (blood brain barrier), but here HAN, we're treating the HPA thru the anterior pituitary (picking up TSH and kickstarting your thyroid) and hypothalamus, and also hitting the D2 in adrenals.
See? Little molecular magic. Now, you gotta have that glutathione up and going, of thyroid production of receptors is gonna be shitty. Need zinc need selenium to do the job. Keep with your zinc, no more than 100mgs, spread out over 3 doses. Find and use the selenium methionate.
Now, cAMP is also problematic here. Depending on how you react, we may use a little forskolin (95%, do not buy the 20%, please), in olive oil, 25 mg doses once or twice a day by oral syringe (to measure accurately)...but we only use that as a last resort to push the pituitary and adrenals into action. And we don't to endlessly push cAMP, that backfires in kidney tubules (promotes growth in basement tissues).
Now glucose metabolism also sucks. You're going to have to use the citrrate as an TCA intermediate.
Get the metabolic assay done, like I said, we have no fricking idea where TCA cycle is being hindered.
Taurine will help two issues: first is low oxygen, high CO2, from improper breathing (stress related, not iron). Second is, it helps with hyperosmotic issues in cells, because you're not regulating water balance right.
>All fatty acid metabolism through metaboic testing where also low so could this be preventing the conversion into the needed prostaglandins and giving me fatty acid deficiency since they are not be utlized?
Nope, its a liver problem. The inositol will help for the reasons stated.
>MY liver detoxification test awhile back should low sulfate, low gluthiione, elevated lipid perioxidation.
No shit sherlock. Now, if you had omega-3 ups the yingyang, it might just be pushing lipid peroxidation, but I kinda doubt it. This is more about whole shortage of reducing equivalents.
NAC, Vitamin C, normal dosing of omega 3, and Coenzyme Q10, Vitamin E mixed tocopherols.
>My serum b-12 and folic acids are off the charts could this be result of being undermethylated, but metabolic profile showed that b-12, folic acid levels were low even though serums where off the charts?
Yeah, and I mentioned this in OTBs thread. Its possible to have a backup in liver and have very low circulating B12 because of an inhibition in other pathways.
This is in the biomed research lit, and it also seems to be part of an issue for some folks for appetite issues (low B12 driving leptin/ghrelin imbalance).
>Glutamine seems to be converting to glutamate verified by several urine tests so what is the signficance of this? I have no dectible gabba levels.
I'm responding to this reply of yours, as I read it first time, and so I am totally not surprised to see this no GABA production (although its always gratifying to read that you know that you're correct via lab analysis). Choline, kid. You gotta upregulate phosphoinositol cycle biosynthesis, and that will help bring up GABA, reduce your NMDA a bit, and help that leaky gut inflammation problem, also help correct the bile acid issue, and while we're at it, correct cholesterol and fat soluble vitamin issues, also blockading adrenals.
> My krebs cycle is at a stand still !! Are there any other sources of citric acid that could be an alternative source? i can not find citrate as a supplement any where.
Jesu, man, use your brain cells! 65K question(s) of the day: what is vinegar?? (we feed the TCA via acetate) What is lemon and orange juice? What is grapefruit??
On the metabolic testing it mentioined about AKG..What significance would that have?
Thats alpha ketoglutaric acid, and its interrconverted by a special biochemical cycle shunt from glutamine in brain.
Glutamine in brain is a key source of energy. Nice if it works right. It can build up and be excitotoxic when GABA and taurine are tanked. As in your case, eh??
And that, my friend, is the kicker behind your unhappy gut.
>Low citric acid, low gluthione, glycine pathway is weak. What other labs offer this. i am going to have nutritional anayalsis ran by spectracell to see what vitamins i am missing and then supplements accordingly instead of shot gunning high dosages.
I found a lab online, I think I might have mentioned it in OTBs thread. Otherwise I have to go look for it again.
Glycine is helped by TMG (trimethylglycine).
>Does it matter what brand i use for magnesium citrate any one that you recommend?
Nope, its all reagent grade, I would use NOW, bulk 8 oz, just because its cheap and they are reliable, you can throw it in water and suck it down.
>Testosrone is in the shitter 200 vs normal 900. using test creme now
Could that put a damper on protein synthesis?
Yeah, its blocking protein synthesis.
You get leucine and BCAAs and you start using 'em, OK? Also HMB.
Might as well get that protein synthesis going and slow down proteolysis (which you are using for energy), while the inositol mix starts up the TSH-LH armature in pituitary and thyroid to push your adrenals and testes into test production.
capice? This is kinda nice how it fits together.
Forskolin, later. Not now, not until we get liver looking better. eh?
>Wouldn't balancing the thyroid and adrenals raise the testosterone ?
dhea is mid normal but I have been supplementing with 50 mgs a day
pregneolone was super low and i found correlation that low pregnelone is related to hypothyroidism GO FIGURE.
Yeah, it helps to supply the right pathway. We're going MUCH higher on the ladder of chain of command, so at some point, your test and preg supplemention should be superflurous (we hope).
>I am taking super digestiver enyzme from NOW as well 2 with a meal, i also add a digestive gold in there as well just incase
What the hell is digestive gold?? The super enzyme is good enough. Don't add anything else yet, OK?
>Yes increasing fiber slowly especially insoluable kind. Stool are mush !! not formed. Colon feels dehyrated and that I do not have the energy to push.
Yeah, the fiber will help a ton, as weill slowing adding vegetables and more protein to your diet. Slow and easy, though, on fiber...you gut needs to get used to it.
I think we might just start programming your gut microflora next. One thing at time.
Nice to know that I seem to be calling your issues accurately...and I got some tricks up my sleeve, some shared here already, that should be very helpful to you and to
a number of others who have similar problems.
>Yes i am using selenium methylcysteine from jarrow, but my multivitamin i take from metagenics has it in asparate form instead. total is 400 mcgs a day
Next time, get the methionine form instead. This is tricky..I think you should stay at 400, but you may need to bump it up. It bioconcentrates, and that makes me uneasy about recommending more. Sit tight on what you using, its what the Mayo Clinic recommends for adult males.
>Could one be insulin resistance even though blood profile does not refect it? such low hdl, elevated ldh, elevated LDL, ect.
Duh. Cholesterol metabolism is controlled by insulin. Too much, and you get your profile.
T4 to T3 is an enzyme reaction.
TMG will down regulate insulin surging. Side bonus, and the glucuronic pathway nudge (with the lactone) will help energy (TCA workaround) and help with insulin sensitivity as well.
The enzyme expression is regulated by free fatty acids --> yours are high, and its blocking conversion of T4.
Fix your liver, kid. Inositol plus the other supps we talked about, will bring it back online eventually. See? Liver doens't work right, key biological lipids produced in the liver get out of balance, and they run much of the big picture mechanics at the gene activating level, through nuclear receptors -throughout the body. I talk about this on other forums in quite a bit of detail that would go sailing over heads here. We'll use the practical ends of molecular biology and biochemisry to get your health back again.
Sound like a plan, HAN?