A question for the gun owners/advocates on this site

[Will Brink]

a woman in las vegas felt the police weren't doing enough to find her daughter so she plowed into a crowded sidewalk. [/FONT][/SIZE]

SUV Hits Several Outside California Middle School

Thursday, May 03, 2007


May 2: An SUV sits outside the Ralston Middle School in Belmont.

BELMONT, Calif. â?????? A sport utility vehicle jumped a curb and plowed into a group of California middle school students waiting for a bus, authorities said. Three teenagers were in intensive care Thursday.

About half a dozen children were hit, including several who were trapped under the SUV when it struck a tree outside Ralston Middle School on Wednesday, Police Lt. Dan DeSmidt said. Parents and staff used a jack and collective muscle to lift the SUV and rescue the trapped children, he said.

Fire Chief Doug Fry said 13 children and the SUV's driver were taken to hospitals. Seven went to trauma centers with problems ranging from broken bones to internal injuries, he said.

FOXNews.com - SUV Hits Several Outside California Middle School - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

Later one person said "Nobody needs a vehicle that massive. It can only cause horrific damage with such momentum. It is a terrible public health hazard. If it saves just one life it will be worth it. Think of the children!"

Yah, it's like that....

 

[DOMS]

...said the guy who didn't serve a day in his life. You're all talk pal, just another backwoods cowboy.

So, you know whether I've served or not?

And just in general, you're sooooo wrong, and I'm soooo right.

Wow, that's a great bit of reasoning. You're debating skills are legendary.

You think that having by plinker, you're going to protect your rights, or your freedom or your land against the might of the US government + military. You are so hilarious man. What are you going to do when somebody calls a fire mission on your residence or when somebody laser-tags your house and drops a 500lbs bomb on you? You are gonna die that's what you're going to do.

Like I said, who said the full military is going to side with the government? It'll likely be another civil war. But the sure thing is that I won't go down like the pussy you are.

What bothers me, is that in real life you're probably a stand up guy, but when it comes to these discussions you sound like the biggest idiot around, DOMS.

I'm hurt.

 

[iMan323]

Go to this web site run by current and ex SOF and tell them of your plans to run to Brazil:

Special Operations Forces Community Forum

Let's see what the guys who served have to say about your attitude. If I a single guy there agrees with you, I will give you $50.00 (fifty dollars US)

I will have to confirm they are a real member of that forum (so we know it's no just you using another name and or a pal of yours) but that's my only requirement. I promise you, those who served will take a much worse view of you than anyone here will and will not be nearly as nice as anyone here is being.

You got the mouth, I have the $$$. What's it gonna be?

Are you asking to see my DD214? Thanks, but no thanks, fuck you very much. And just for the record Brinks, I'm not concerned what some military people think. My obligations are done, I wouldn't go back at gunpoint.

 

[Will Brink]

Are you asking to see my DD214?

Not asking you a damn thing. You spoke about those who served, but you don't want to face those who serve/served with such comments about running off to Brazil yet use the "you never served so your opinion don't count" routine. Just trying to get some clarification here, that's all....

 

[tomuchgear]

Quote:
Originally Posted by iMan323
What bothers me, is that in real life you're probably a stand up guy, but when it comes to these discussions you sound like the biggest idiot around, DOMS

wow man people have the right to a opinion. dont call doms a fucking idiot so what if he hasnt seen what other people have seen. ya i get it you fuck with the gov ok what ever. it is better to stand up for what you believe in and die for it than to run away like a coward. i wear my army shirt with pride. i am proud to say i stand for what i believe in ya you may have seen some fucked up shit. well that happens but you as a ex-soldier should still say you would stand up for what is right.

 

[clemson357]

I am not sure how you measure my intelligence based on one opinion that I hold.

Some opinions are utterly wrong. Some opinions are indicative of a fear-driven, closed minded individual.

If you had said something along the lines of "I have weighed the pros and cons and I don't think a gun in my home is worth the risk at this point in time," that would be something different. To flat out say that you do not need a gun under any circumstances because you live in a good neighborhood and have an alarm is flatly false. As you can clearly see by that video, many times the police can't get there until after the crime is committed. Your alarm isn't going to do a damn thing. Sorry to burst your bubble of false security, but you are responsible for your own protection.

I know that guns aren't for everyone. Some people are too spastic, too irresponsible, or too untrustworthy to own one. But if you do not fall into one of these categories, chances are you are safer with a gun in your home, especially given the fact that you can own a 100% reliable handgun, have 100% confidence that no one else can access it, and have 100% confidence in your ability to use it safely for roughly $700 and half a days instruction.

 

[tomuchgear]

well clemson not all things that come with a hand gun are 100%reliable. i once got a box of winchester 9mm shells that were all freaking duds. i got up close and personal with a target to make sure. even point blank nothing i was livid.

 

[tomuchgear]

also ignorance, and inteligence are two diffrent things. princes statement was more ignorant to the topic than stupid. although he may have a good reason for that opinion making him not ignorant to the topic.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Haven't you ever watched batman??

Point being stricter isn't better, he's going to use a gun and he will get 20 years if he's caught why not just walk up and cap the guy then take the money instead of waiting for him to put it in the bag? It's all about escalation, once we sit back and say there will always be crime and people will always get killed by other people then we can make sane laws.

If the cops told you "if I catch you speeding I just whip out my gun and blast you in the face", what are you going to do when a cop pulls you over? You're going to throw lead at him.

Can you please explain this post.

I don't understand it.

 

[KentDog]

Point being stricter isn't better, he's going to use a gun and he will get 20 years if he's caught why not just walk up and cap the guy then take the money instead of waiting for him to put it in the bag? It's all about escalation, once we sit back and say there will always be crime and people will always get killed by other people then we can make sane laws.

If the cops told you "if I catch you speeding I just whip out my gun and blast you in the face", what are you going to do when a cop pulls you over? You're going to throw lead at him.

Excellent rebuttal.

But our houses would be a lot cleaner and a lot more cooking would get done

It's funny because it's true!

 

[KentDog]

Some opinions are utterly wrong. Some opinions are indicative of a fear-driven, closed minded individual.
If you had said something along the lines of "I have weighed the pros and cons and I don't think a gun in my home is worth the risk at this point in time," that would be something different. To flat out say that you do not need a gun under any circumstances because you live in a good neighborhood and have an alarm is flatly false.

I hope you are not serious. First, no one needs to outright state that they have weighed the pros and cons of any situation to give a valid opinion. Secondly, you are putting words into Prince's mouth. When did he say he would never need a gun under any circumstances? Even if he had, it would still not make his opinion "utterly wrong." Some people just don't feel they need guns. What's wrong with that?

If a man purchases a gun to keep in his home for self defense, but dies a natural death at an old age without ever having used it for self defense, then did he ever need a gun? No.

As you can clearly see by that video, many times the police can't get there until after the crime is committed. Your alarm isn't going to do a damn thing. Sorry to burst your bubble of false security, but you are responsible for your own protection .

Are you saying that you honestly believe house alarms do not prevent any crimes; that if a burglar where to break into a home and an alarm were to sound, that 100% of them would continue to stay in the home and none would immediately flee?

I know that guns aren't for everyone. Some people are too spastic, too irresponsible, or too untrustworthy to own one. But if you do not fall into one of these categories, chances are you are safer with a gun in your home, especially given the fact that you can own a 100% reliable handgun, have 100% confidence that no one else can access it, and have 100% confidence in your ability to use it safely for roughly $700 and half a days instruction.

Can you really ever be 100% sure your gun is 100% reliable, that no one will have access to your gun, and that you will be able to handle a gun safely in most situations? If you felt someone was breaking into your home, I think the average person, gun owner or not, would feel nervous; possibly nervous enough to potentially mistaken their own son for a burglar and shoot him dead.

I live in an upper middle class suburban area as well and in my opinion, I don't need a gun either. You make it sound as if owning a gun would prevent any kind of situation in which someone could be trying to harm you. If an intruder were to enter your home with the intent to shoot you dead, owning a gun wouldn't necessarily lower the chances of your death.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Excellent rebuttal.

It's a terrible response.

Studies don't claim what he's saying. (No, I cannot find the old links, but they are there.)

He making an assumption.

 

[maniclion]

It's a good thing you, and that many people like you, weren't around for the Civil War.

There were, they helped make towns like Toronto bustling cities....

 

[bio-chem]

I have a family, which is why I live in an upper middle class suburban area and have an alarm on my house, I don't need a gun.

wow. prince. wow.

 

[bio-chem]

Should civilians be allowed to purchase a shotgun like the experimental military AA-12 (Click here to see a video demonstration). That is the best CQB weapon I've ever seen....

On that note, should civilians be able to purchase military grade weapons? I bet many of you still grumble over the 1994 automatic weapons ban. I know what the gun control people are going to say, so I'm not really interested in hearing it...but how would you gun folks feel if your neighbor had one of those shotguns in his closet?

I like the idea little wing had about being able to use one at a gun range and the money going to police. No i dont think a military shotgun should be sold to the public. It would be fun to shoot, but no point in a civilian owning one. Also i could care less about banning assault weapons. again they would be fun to shoot, but little civilian purpose. my concern with allowing some guns to be banned is that it opens the door for all guns to be banned.

 

[KelJu]

I like the idea little wing had about being able to use one at a gun range and the money going to police. No i dont think a military shotgun should be sold to the public. It would be fun to shoot, but no point in a civilian owning one. Also i could care less about banning assault weapons. again they would be fun to shoot, but little civilian purpose. my concern with allowing some guns to be banned is that it opens the door for all guns to be banned.

There is a shooting range here that rents out guns that are illegal to own, but you can shoot in their indoor range. You can rent guns like AK-47s, Uzis, MAC-10s, ect. The idea rocks. I got to shoot an HK-MP5 machine gun like the one below:

YouTube Video

It only cost $25 to rent the gun for a day, but they get you on the ammo. That guy just shot 30 rounds in about 3 seconds. You end up shooting $100 worth of ammo. Its still cool, and it quenched my thirst for a while. One day I will go back and shoot some more. The guy said he barely makes any money off of it, because the license to own and rent them cost so much.

 

[clemson357]

I hope you are not serious. First, no one needs to outright state that they have weighed the pros and cons of any situation to give a valid opinion. Secondly, you are putting words into Prince's mouth. When did he say he would never need a gun under any circumstances? Even if he had, it would still not make his opinion "utterly wrong." Some people just don't feel they need guns. What's wrong with that?

If a man purchases a gun to keep in his home for self defense, but dies a natural death at an old age without ever having used it for self defense, then did he ever need a gun? No.


Are you saying that you honestly believe house alarms do not prevent any crimes; that if a burglar where to break into a home and an alarm were to sound, that 100% of them would continue to stay in the home and none would immediately flee?


Can you really ever be 100% sure your gun is 100% reliable, that no one will have access to your gun, and that you will be able to handle a gun safely in most situations? If you felt someone was breaking into your home, I think the average person, gun owner or not, would feel nervous; possibly nervous enough to potentially mistaken their own son for a burglar and shoot him dead.

I live in an upper middle class suburban area as well and in my opinion, I don't need a gun either. You make it sound as if owning a gun would prevent any kind of situation in which someone could be trying to harm you. If an intruder were to enter your home with the intent to shoot you dead, owning a gun wouldn't necessarily lower the chances of your death.

You make so many terrible points, I am not going to waste my time. Its clear you are beyond help.

I will say this. When someone says "I don't need a gun because I live in a good neighborhood," it DOESN'T mean "I may need a gun at some point in time."

Also, when someone enters your home with the intent to kill you, all an alarm does nothing but give them a time limit. Usually around 15-30 minutes, which is plenty.

 

[KentDog]

You make so many terrible points, I am not going to waste my time. Its clear you are beyond help.

Great argument . You then try to make some points of your own after said statement .

Also, when someone enters your home with the intent to kill you, all an alarm does nothing but give them a time limit. Usually around 15-30 minutes, which is plenty

Okay, expert .

I like that you don't even try to directly refute any of the points made.

 

[clemson357]

I like that you don't even try to directly refute any of the points made.

Because they are so eloquent and well thought out.

 

[clemson357]

If an intruder were to enter your home with the intent to shoot you dead, owning a gun wouldn't necessarily lower the chances of your death.

But being defenseless will.

 

[KentDog]

But being defenseless will.

Not owning a gun does not make one defenseless.

 

[Biggly]

But it does make you gunless...




B.

 

[bio-chem]

Not owning a gun does not make one defenseless.

against a gun it does

 

[Will Brink]

against a gun it does

Remember, this woman did not need a gun, and an alarm plus wishful thinking is all she really needed:

YouTube - Armed Citizens: Calling 911 Doesn't Always Work

 

[clemson357]

against a gun it does

The first rule of a gun fight: have a gun.

 

[clemson357]

against a gun it does

You are also shit out of luck if you happen to be a woman or an elderly person and your attacker is a man. However, if this is your circumstance, take solace in the fact that the police may show up in 10 to 30 minutes.

 

[Will Brink]

The first rule of a gun fight: have a gun.

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper

 

[Will Brink]

You are also shit out of luck if you happen to be a woman or an elderly person and your attacker is a man. However, if this is your circumstance, take solace in the fact that the police may show up in 10 to 30 minutes.

I have already made that point to him, but he's one of those people unable to think beyond his own personal situation and is unable to put himself in anothers shoes. A common human failing. Remember:

"when seconds count the cops are just minutes away"

 

[clemson357]

This is really an exercise in futility. I don't think any anti-gun person has ever been convinced of the lack of logic in their argument. Hoplophobia is based on an irrational fear, and logic only works on rational people.

 

[Will Brink]

This is really an exercise in futility. I don't think any anti-gun person has ever been convinced of the lack of logic in their argument. Hoplophobia is based on an irrational fear, and logic only works on rational people.

You are of course correct. They will repeat themselves, using the same myths and fallacies, and will pull the intellectual equivalent to sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la la" when corrected (using the actual hard data, etc) about those myths and fallacies they repeat. Of course, histories best known men of war and peace understood what's at stake and or supported the basic human right of self defense. For example:

"I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully." - Mahatma Gandhi (Young India, 11-10-1928, p342)


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times) speaking at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon, when asked by a girl how to react when a shooter takes aim at a classmate

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." - St. Augustine A.D. 354-430