Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law

[Dale Mabry]

Now the government will decide for you, life or death. Treat or not to treat. Let's see, look how well they run the postal system, and social security. You really think you're better off? Think again.

2) Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.

Yeah, because having the CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation whose profits are driven either by overcharging you for a service or finding ways to not provide it once you're due is a much better system.

 

[secdrl]

I never claimed that stuff would be tolerated in an arab country, I just think you have a skewed view of what your freedoms are. However, as an exercise, since we're talking about freedom, how is this ruling going to have an effect your freedom, specifically.

It's sets a foundation. If the government can mandate that we ALL have to carry health insurance, what else will they be able to mandate? Food we eat? (Ask Bloomberg) The cars we drive (Chevy Volt) This HC Bill is NOT free. It's going to add an insane amount of money to the debt and the bill will be paid for by the individuals who work for a living. NOTHING is free. Nothing. Why should I have to pay for someone elses HC?

 

[Dale Mabry]

I'm not the owner.

The coverage of this plan is going to surpass ER visits, which is going to mean more money is going to have to come from somewhere. That "somewhere" is almost always the middle class, which is where I sit in the fiscal strata. In short, I'm now going to pay out more of what I make.

Well, when the party you vote for refuses to increase taxes on the upper class, where do you think the money is going to come from? Our entire healthcare system is fucked, you have people paying small premiums and co-pays while companies pay for the bulk of the services. People don't have a vested interest in being healthy because the financial de-centive isn't there when they end up using the service. Then, because they lived the lifestyle of an asshole during their younger years, all of us young and healthy people get to pay for their medicine they need to live on past 65. On top of that, the companies who profit the most from this (Pharmaceuticals, Docs, food industry, etc.)are the ones running the country.

I agree that the cost is going to be paid by someone, but it's going to get paid by someone eventually anyway. It costs far more money to pay for the medical bills of a 65 year old person whose diabetes went undiagnosed for 20 years than it is to identify them in their 30s and get them the info they need to keep shit straight.

 

[Dale Mabry]

people who rely on their tax return to live will be penalized for obamacare and receive less tax return now...dems keeping the poor, poor...make them rely on the gov't for handouts and secure votes...

If you rely on your tax return to live, you have far bigger problems than healthcare.

It's sets a foundation. If the government can mandate that we ALL have to carry health insurance, what else will they be able to mandate? Food we eat? (Ask Bloomberg) The cars we drive (Chevy Volt) This HC Bill is NOT free. It's going to add an insane amount of money to the debt and the bill will be paid for by the individuals who work for a living. NOTHING is free. Nothing. Why should I have to pay for someone elses HC?

Because you already do, this just makes the people who can afford it get it. Of course there's going to be some freeloaders, but they're already using the service. The fact of the matter is, unless you sign some form of waiver stating you refuse all medical treatment you need to have some skin in the game.

 

[DOMS]

Well, when the party you vote for refuses to increase taxes on the upper class, where do you think the money is going to come from? Our entire healthcare system is fucked, you have people paying small premiums and co-pays while companies pay for the bulk of the services. People don't have a vested interest in being healthy because the financial de-centive isn't there when they end up using the service. Then, because they lived the lifestyle of an asshole during their younger years, all of us young and healthy people get to pay for their medicine they need to live on past 65. On top of that, the companies who profit the most from this (Pharmaceuticals, Docs, food industry, etc.)are the ones running the country.

I agree that the cost is going to be paid by someone, but it's going to get paid by someone eventually anyway. It costs far more money to pay for the medical bills of a 65 year old person whose diabetes went undiagnosed for 20 years than it is to identify them in their 30s and get them the info they need to keep shit straight.

A better approach would be to regulate the industry, not put it in the hand of people that have been shown to fuck things up.

Just because I'm getting financially raped by the wealthy, doesn't mean that I want to get it from the poor, too.

You're right though, the real problem is the corporations, their special interest groups, and bought-off politicians. That's where real health care reform needs to start. Which, by the way, Obama has made even worse during his administration.

 

[Swiper]

now the democrats are going to introduce a bill that mandates you buy solar panels for your home or face a fine. and yes now that would be constitutional according to this supreme court. a crazy America we live in now.

don't blame me, I voted Ron Paul!

 

[Dale Mabry]

A better approach would be to regulate the industry, not put it in the hand of people that have been shown to fuck things up.

Just because I'm getting financially raped by the wealthy, doesn't mean that I want to get it from the poor, too.

You're right though, the real problem is the corporations, their special interest groups, and bought-off politicians. That's where real health care reform needs to start. Which, by the way, Obama has made even worse during his administration.

All this was was a kickback to the insurance companies, I am not a fan of Obamacare either. Single payer is the way to go.

 

[DOMS]

 

[bandaidwoman]

I gave a talk on PPACA 2 years ago at EMory and I told the audience it would not be unconstitutional since it was essentially a tax, I wish I could tell the pre-laws in the audience who told me I was crazy to shove it up their ass.
WIth that said, those of us who belong to PNHP hate it.

The following statement was released today by leaders of Physicians for a National Health Program (Physicians for a National Health Program). Their signatures appear below.
Although the Supreme Court has upheld the Affordable Care Act (ACA), the unfortunate reality is that the law, despite its modest benefits, is not a remedy to our health care crisis: (1) it will not achieve universal coverage, as it leaves at least 26 million uninsured, (2) it will not make health care affordable to Americans with insurance, because of high co-pays and gaps in coverage that leave patients vulnerable to financial ruin in the event of serious illness, and (3) it will not control costs.
Why is this so? Because the ACA perpetuates a dominant role for the private insurance industry. Each year, that industry siphons off hundreds of billions of health care dollars for overhead, profit and the paperwork it demands from doctors and hospitals; it denies care in order to increase insurers? bottom line; and it obstructs any serious effort to control costs.
In contrast, a single-payer, improved-Medicare-for-all system would provide truly universal, comprehensive coverage; health security for our patients and their families; and cost control. It would do so by replacing private insurers with a single, nonprofit agency like Medicare that pays all medical bills, streamlines administration, and reins in costs for medications and other supplies through its bargaining clout.
Research shows the savings in administrative costs alone under a single-payer plan would amount to $400 billion annually, enough to provide quality coverage to everyone with no overall increase in U.S. health spending.
The major provisions of the ACA do not go into effect until 2014. Although we will be counseled to ?wait and see? how this reform plays out, we?ve seen how comparable plans have worked in Massachusetts and other states. Those ?reforms? have invariably failed our patients, foundering on the shoals of skyrocketing costs, even as the private insurers have continued to amass vast fortunes.
Our patients, our people and our national economy cannot wait any longer for an effective remedy to our health care woes. The stakes are too high.
Contrary to the claims of those who say we are ?unrealistic,? a single-payer system is within practical reach. The most rapid way to achieve universal coverage would be to improve upon the existing Medicare program and expand it to cover people of all ages. There is legislation before Congress, notably H.R. 676, the ?Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act,? which would do precisely that.
What is truly unrealistic is believing that we can provide universal and affordable health care in a system dominated by private insurers and Big Pharma.
The American people desperately need a universal health system that delivers comprehensive, equitable, compassionate and high-quality care, with free choice of provider and no financial barriers to access. Polls have repeatedly shown an improved Medicare for all, which meets these criteria, is the remedy preferred by two-thirds of the population. A solid majority of the medical profession now favors such an approach, as well.
We pledge to step up our work for the only equitable, financially responsible and humane cure for our health care ills: single-payer national health insurance, an expanded and improved Medicare for all.
Garrett Adams, M.D.
President
Andrew Coates, M.D.
President-elect
Oliver Fein, M.D.
Past President
Claudia Fegan, M.D.
Past President
David Himmelstein, M.D.
Co-founder
Steffie Woolhandler, M.D.
Co-founder
Quentin Young, M.D.
National Coordinator
Don McCanne, M.D.
Senior Health Policy Fellow

 

[hoyle21]

Here's where you're wrong...foreign governments suppress uprisings and protests mainly by military force. I have a hard time believing, as of now, that the American military would ever shoot American citizens in the event of severe uprisings or protest(s). I personally, nor do I know of any military servicemembers that would ever support or engage in that type of activity. "

Put down your wine cooler, you're talkin' funny stuff...

4 dead in O-H-I-O. It's happened before, it would happen again.

 

[oufinny]

I gave a talk on PPACA 2 years ago at EMory and I told the audience it would not be unconstitutional since it was essentially a tax, I wish I could tell the pre-laws in the audience who told me I was crazy to shove it up their ass.
WIth that said, those of us who belong to PNHP hate it.

Medicare is a completely flawed system that limits care options; I know this from family members who have to use "alternative medications" that are approved by medicare instead of what the patient needs. Anyone who has used the VA hospitals can guarantee this as a reality. There is surely a better system but medicare doesn't pay doctors and hospitals on time among so many other problems I am repeatedly told by healthcare professionals like yourself.

 

[Dale Mabry]

Medicare is a completely flawed system that limits care options; I know this from family members who have to use "alternative medications" that are approved by medicare instead of what the patient needs. Anyone who has used the VA hospitals can guarantee this as a reality. There is surely a better system but medicare doesn't pay doctors and hospitals on time among so many other problems I am repeatedly told by healthcare professionals like yourself.

What is their other, better option?

 

[oufinny]

4 dead in O-H-I-O. It's happened before, it would happen again.

I was going to say, the Ohio National Guard sure didn't restrain themselves against people exercising their right to protest.

 

[Dale Mabry]

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare

 

[irish_2003]

If you rely on your tax return to live, you have far bigger problems than healthcare.

i make a modest living that i can live off of myself while going back for another degree...i'm in the medical field...i don't buy into healthplans because frankly i spend much less paying cash for anything i've ever needed a dr for versus hundreds of dollars a month in an insurance plan that i'll never get back what i pay into it...i'm eligible for va benefits but still choose not to use them because i don't need them and those coming back from the wars might need them...most ailments people should just stay home and take care of themselves anyway...we've been brainwashed that you need a dr or a pill for everything and that's so far from the truth...people need to suck it up...lastly i don't want any more of my money going to the ghetto's, trailer parks, or to illegal f'n immigrants...i don't work so they can be taken care of...i work so I CAN BE taken care of and if i choose to have a family i'll work hard for them too...

 

[DOMS]

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare

Just like all the Democrats that said they go to Canada if Bush won a second term?

 

[dirtwarrior]

What will be next? Since people need cars how about a tax to make sure everyone has a car

 

[NVRBDR]

The bottom line is bigGER government is not the answer period. Where does it end? It ends in dictatorship.

 

[Swiper]

the healthcare mandate was originally a Republican plan that was proposed to counter Clinton's healthcare plan. Just one more thing that the GOP was for before they were against it, the hypocrisy of the GOP knows no bounds....

yep Obama care is almost the same as Romney care in Massachusetts. I just hope more people will finally realize republicans do not support small limited govt. and move towards the Libertarian party.

 

[LAM]

Here's where you're wrong...foreign governments suppress uprisings and protests mainly by military force. I have a hard time believing, as of now, that the American military would ever shoot American citizens in the event of severe uprisings or protest(s). I personally, nor do I know of any military servicemembers that would ever support or engage in that type of activity. "...enemies domestic and abroad..."

Secondly, my freedom is not an illusion. 90% of the activities I engage in here, the outspokeness that I have here, the decisions that I make here would never be tolerated in a foreign arab country. (as you claim)

Put down your wine cooler, you're talkin' funny stuff...

it's called UN peacekeepers, the new global police force courtesy of the UN/NWO....they will fire on American's because the vast majority of them are not from the US

 

[heckler7]

What Obamacare means to you: You will pay mandatory taxes or fines for not having medical insurance. It is a tax increase on the middle class. These are yearly taxes and graduate higher as time progresses. This is what you'll be paying.

2014
One Adult 1% or or $95
Two Adults 1% or $190
Three Plus Adults 1% or $285

2015
One Adult 2% or $325
Two Adults 2% or $650
Three Plus Adults 2% or $975

2016+
One Adult 2.5% or $695
Two Adults 2.5% or $1350
Three Plus Adults 2.5% or $2085

Can you afford that?!?

if you have insurance you wont pay this

 

[irish_2003]

yep Obama care is almost the same as Romney care in Massachusetts. I just hope more people will finally realize republicans do not support small limited govt. and move towards the Libertarian party.

the difference is romney has admitting repeatedly that his plan was a mistake and there's alot he'd do differently...the liberals would NEVER admit they made a mistake...they are perfect and it's always the rights fault and they never do anything wrong...think about how terrible it was in hawaii too...families dropped their private coverage for the cheaper state plan and it went bankrupt in less than 2 years...there's other examples...

 

[heckler7]

Romney wrote the blueprint for Obamacare

 

[LAM]

What most people have neglected to address is that the rising healthcare costs in the US have much to do with the LACK of preventive care over the course of the lifespan. it is also a small percentage of the population that accounts for the majority of health care expenses at the EOL. but as we all know there is no money to be made in the prevention of illness or in a cure, the money is in the treatment of sickness and disease.

 

[heckler7]

Truth is unless your on the other side you wont see the good in this. Unless you know what it is to have a condition that requires medication and lost your job, and maybe only for a few weeks until you found a new job and find out that you are not eligable for healthcare now because you has a pre-existing condition. You wont understand how important healthcare reform is.

 

[secdrl]

it's called UN peacekeepers, the new global police force courtesy of the UN/NWO....they will fire on American's because the vast majority of them are not from the US

Sadly, I agree with this.

 

[DOMS]

Truth is unless your on the other side you wont see the good in this. Unless you know what it is to have a condition that requires medication and lost your job, and maybe only for a few weeks until you found a new job and find out that you are not eligable for healthcare now because you has a pre-existing condition. You wont understand how important healthcare reform is.

All of a sudden I feel ever so much better about the government taking even more money from me to redistribute it to other people that didn't earn it.

 

[Bowden]

It's sets a foundation. If the government can mandate that we ALL have to carry health insurance, what else will they be able to mandate? Food we eat? (Ask Bloomberg) The cars we drive (Chevy Volt) This HC Bill is NOT free. It's going to add an insane amount of money to the debt and the bill will be paid for by the individuals who work for a living. NOTHING is free. Nothing. Why should I have to pay for someone elses HC?

You already do pay for someone elses health care.
Insurance companies and health care providers shift costs to private insurance patients to recover the cost of providing care for uninsured patients.
The result is someone that is insured insurance premiums and health care costs are higher.
De facto as someone insured, you are already subsidizing the cost of uninsured health care.

If you think that people that buy health care insurance should have to subsidize the lack of responsibility of someone that can afford to buy health care insurance but does not, I would like to read the reason why you think that way.

 

[Swiper]

The SCOTUS said the health care law and the mandate is a tax. Judge Andrew Napolitanohas a good point when he stated that all legislation that has a tax must originate in the house of representatives. This bill originated in the senate, thus making it unconstitutional.

Article I, Section 7 states that all revenue bills shall originate in the house of Representatives


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[DOMS]

The SCOTUS said the health care law and the mandate is a tax. Judge Andrew Napolitanohas a good point when he stated that all legislation that has a tax must originate in the house of representatives. This bill originated in the senate, thus making it unconstitutional.

Article I, Section 7 states that all revenue bills shall originate in the house of Representatives.​

Nice. I'm hoping they an use that to still get rid of the bill.
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